I act the same way with the same principles. Some people care enough to be courteous, but don't care to actual 'deal' with what might be more of an answer than they were expecting. I always thought it was because I'm very difficult to read. I have to really be suffering for it to show, but that's more of my own mechanisms than for any other reason. I don't see it being a bad thing to filter answers to different people. That wouldn't make you dishonest. You are simply saving the more detailed information for the people who can respond to it in a positive way.
Forum Activity for @kithor
another post about depression ...
I had a problem where I couldn't tell whether my intuition was telling me to pass and walk away from something or if I was depressed/anxious and felt like I couldn't do it. It took awhile for me to realize that it wasn't actually the latter. If your intuition is telling you to pass on it, then perhaps there is a good reason for it. It's tough having the patience to follow your intuition when it isn't revealed why you should pass, but perhaps there is a better opportunity just around the corner. For me, the most difficult thing to accept is my intuition giving me an answer before I have the question, and following that answer without knowing why. Whether it is depression or anxiety or impatience, Emmy has it right. It is a vicious cycle, and once you step in a paradox, it can be very difficult to get out. It takes a lot of willpower and determination to keep pushing forward especially without clear expectations.
I have always had difficulty remembering names if they are spoken. If I can see it written down preferably with high contrast then I can remember it almost indefinitely. Yet, if someone were to ask me how many stop signs and lights were between this location and another, I could easily navigate quickly through it within my mind and give a completely accurate answer. If it is a route I normally take, I could likely describe the houses and their locations as well as details that I might not have even realized at the time I was driving. It seems that I collect an incredible amount of information and store it, but only use it if need be. Especially when I'm in public places, if someone were to ask me after what I observed, I could give details about what people were near me, the positioning of them in that environment, and the energy they gave off whether it be loud and chaotic or soft and peaceful, but yeah, names...terrible with names...
Personally, I feel it is an unrealistic expectation to believe that you can live with this without some level of chaos, but that does not mean it is a curse. I believe that there is no such thing as negative energy. There are only different shades of chaos, some more bearable than others. I don't call it negative because it isn't much different than the weather. Sometimes there are violent thunderstorms caused by an incredible amount varying pressures and temperature. We have to endure through them. We can shelter ourselves from it, but if we do so excessively, then we are essentially living within a river, breathing water as air, our vision foggy and unclear, and every sense distorted from what it can or should be. Identity is lost then, and the deeper one sinks, the more perilous the chaos has become within. The chaos we take in cannot kill us, but how we process it can drown us. That's up to us. I've breathed water more than air in my life. I didn't have the right understanding or perception.
Purpose? That is in your perception. Everyone has what they believe in which in my observations have proven to be merely a construct of something else that we cannot communicate in the medium that is experienced.
updated by @kithor: 04/13/17 10:18:41PM
New to the word, not to the life
I read your post, and seeing how similar our ages are, it makes sense as to why the titles would be so similar as well. Empath is only a word which carries no weight for what I've experienced without that word for so many years. I imagine it is the same for you. It is only a word, and it does not define the struggles or the compromises or the adaptations we've had to make living with it all these years. I've mostly kept it hidden from everyone except a very short list of people, and even with some of those people I have downplayed it or diminished it in some way. It's mostly been unhealthy since it is diminishing my own identity. I cannot be 'normal'. Yet, it is difficult to embrace something that has caused or facilitated some level of uncomfortable chaos. It is difficult to see something positive for me in something that though beneficial at times has drawn a heavy line in the sand between me and people that cannot perceive the world the way we do. But, I'm working on it as you are, trying to clear out the heaviness and let in the light a bit.
It is comforting to see a familiar soul such as yourself. I'm glad you decided to become a part of the community.
I know that I occasionally have the problem of mutating a read into an interpretation that what I'm reading is directed toward me, especially with attitudes and judgments. But, a lot of times it is just feeling those attitudes and judgments against whoever that I find uncomfortable and simply don't want to be around it. It is these and other chaotic people that I have a particularly sensitive radar for that distracts me from enjoying time in public places because of internal triggers that I have in place for it. Some of it is because of my past as it sounds like it is in your case, but I know shutting off that radar in public isn't the answer, at least personally. It is my identity. I just need to learn to live with it better and reduce the anxiety one day at a time.
Perception is everything. I keep a drawn Necker cube on the wall of my office to remind myself that the way we perceive the world isn't necessarily as the world truly is. We perceive it, and how we perceive it can shape and diminish the chaos in our lives. The reality is that it isn't a cube facing one direction or the other. It is just a bunch of lines on a piece of paper...
New to the word, not to the life
I appreciate your response. It seems like I had a better understanding and control of my abilities when I was a teenager, but somewhere between then and now I was able to modify internal controls and shut it off or disconnect. I remember at the time I was building that control I called it, "selective detachment". Though it served its purpose at the time, it was the wrong solution to a difficult problem. It created a rift in understanding the differences between 'reading' and 'interpreting' which are two very different things. The consequences of that solution with the best intentions led ultimately to far more problems. The Greeks would call that 'hamartia'.
So, my present place is best understood through the 'Allegory of the Cave.' I've never known the word empath. I've experienced this without knowing anyone that was. I have my own reality of it, and it's a dark one, but dark does not equal negative. There is a radiating power in that dark. My predicament is described quite well in Wikipedia in its description of Allegory of the Cave:
Socrates then supposes that one prisoner is freed, being forced to turn and see the fire. The light would hurt his eyes and make it hard for him to see the objects that are casting the shadows. If he is told that what he saw before wasnotreal but that the objects he is now struggling to see are, he would not believe it. In his pain, Socrates continues, the freed prisoner would turn away and run back to what he can see and is accustomed to, that is the shadows of the carried objects. He writes "...it would hurt his eyes, and he would escape by turning away to the things which he was able to look at, and these he would believe to be clearer than what was being shown to him."
Socrates continues: "suppose...that someone should drag him...by force, up the rough ascent, the steep way up, and never stop until he could drag him out into the light of the sun."The prisoner would be angry and in pain, and this would only worsen when the radiant light of the sun overwhelms his eyes and blinds him. The sunlight is representative of the new reality and knowledge that the freed prisoner is experiencing.
Slowly, his eyes adjust to the light of the sun. First he can only see shadows. Gradually he can see the reflections of people and things in water and then later see the people and things themselves. Eventually he is able to look at the stars and moon at night until finally he can look upon the sun itself (516a). Only after he can look straight at the sun "is he able to reason about it" and what it is (516b).
Until I get past that point, I'm unlikely to feel real true happiness that is actually my own, and the comfort I know is where I've been. That is the predicament...
I hate people that lie to get painkillers. They make it really difficult for the people that need actual pain relief to cut to the chase. I was given an IV of Tylenol until they could confirm a few hours later by CT scan that I was passing a kidney stone which I already knew was happening. Then they brought out the dilaudid. At the point, I was mentally drained from the needless suffering I went through, but I also get it to. While I was in the waiting room I watched someone standing in line to register only to suddenly collapse when they got to the front of the line screaming about pain they were having when I had been watching them calmly standing there for like 15 minutes. I also saw a guy who came in saying he had a broken hand walk out an hour later with a script in one hand, a smile on his face, and holding his jacket with his supposed broken hand without a splint. People...
I usually craft my words in a way just to see if they'll do it again, to give them an extra chance to not lie, but it is par t of human nature. Now sociopaths, that is another story entirely. Though I find it amusing, at the same time I find them a bit horrifying because I cannot understand how they come to be. I saw one take advantage of someone by convincing the person that he had a serious cancer, and then go to someone else and convince them he had a serious heart problem using sympathy to sink his hooks into them. He tried fishing to control me too along with everyone else in his path, but it's just too obvious to me. The hard part in that is making sure the sociopath doesn't see me for what I am and that I see him for what he truly is. Sociopaths definitely do it for fun.
My wife is the same, and in the past I haven't been very good at dealing with it without absorbing a great deal of her anxiety or frustration, and even worse thinking it's my own and acting frustrated with her. What I've learned is that it is just as important for her to vent as it is for me to not absorb it, so I keep trying to establish awareness when she vents that it is hers and not mine, and it is necessary for her especially considering my relationship to her. I cannot block her out and consider that okay no matter what I am and what I absorb, so I use my strength more geared toward letting her channel that energy out and doing my best not to absorb it knowing that once it's out, she will feel dramatically better. I just try to let it dissipate in the room and not take it on myself.
To me there is no such thing as negative energy. There is just energy, and the energy that is vented is chaotic energy, energy that should not be contained because it cannot be controlled. When I used to see it as negative energy, I could not help but see the source, and the source is not negative. The source is just trying to let it out before it consumes her, and she needs help to do that.
Of course if I happen to be dealing with an extreme of my own chaotic energy and she needs to vent at that particular time, I tell her that I will listen to what she has to say when I get my own out or at least lessened because otherwise it will just give me an anxiety attack. Optimally there should be understanding between you and your husband about these things if he's open to it, but of course regardless of what understanding there is, there will be days where two volatile people will result in nothing good, but remember that tomorrow is another day...
updated by @kithor: 01/16/17 02:00:49PM
I mostly agree. If someone is actively asking for help and their intention is to get better understanding of what they are going through in order to face it and work through it, then I don't see it as manipulation, I see it as help. If someone is suffering through something, and an empath decides to set triggers with the person that allows them to see it for what it is, then I believe that is manipulation because the intent wasn't there of the person suffering to either ask for help or willing to face it. That can makes things far worse if the person suffering is especially not prepared to face it.
There is one real rare case that I've personally gone through in which I took it to an extreme and I feel it was justified because to do nothing would have caused far more chaos not only to my family, but to many other families. I don't think that's the norm. The person in question was a sociopath who had manipulated people against each other in order to maintain control, and his path was going to make them all suffer from his own belligerent selfishness. It wasn't the person as much as the situation that I manipulated and did so without it ever surfacing that I had anything to do with it, and I don't ever intend on it coming to light that I had anything to do with it. Nearly all of the people involved saw the sociopath and what became of him as Karma because I never revealed my involvement. I would do it again if I had to because my own family's stability was at risk, and the price of doing nothing was not one I was willing to pay with chaos to my own family. That being said, it was an extreme situation, one that I happened to be in the middle of, and there was no one else that knew what I knew both tangible and not in order to intervene. I did pay a price though. Opening myself up that much to read every little thing around me to accomplish what I needed to caused me incredible sickening anxiety that lasted for weeks.
But as I mentioned in another comment, there is always that possibility that a minor manipulation can have huge unforeseen consequences because humans are not variables in an equation. We are all prone to chaos, and chaos cannot be manipulated accurately no matter how good a person is at manipulation.
For many years and even still I confuse anxiety with energy or vice versa. I confuse other people's emotions particularly frustration and anxiety as sometimes my own. I thought I had attention-deficit because I was so easily distracted, but yet in reading people and situations I could be hyper focused. I'm not one to make or care for many friends. Usually I can feel something about someone that just leaves me feeling uncomfortable especially people that have certain traits like the inability to ever admit failure. When I'm in crowds of people or even just normally I tend to keep my eyes away from others. I'm not quite sure if it's because it can cut down on me reading people or if I think that one of them will see in mine what I can do.
You're certainly not alone if that makes it any easier. My advice is be careful with what you have, but don't try to contain it and stifle it. It makes the anxiety much worse. Just try to maintain self awareness because if you are already this far in understanding what's going on within you, then you are on your way to living more comfortably with it.
updated by @kithor: 12/24/17 10:50:22AM
I think the payment is usually in the form of unintended consequences which can range from something minor to well, pure all out chaos. I don't think it's karma as much as no matter how good one is at it, no one is capable of doing and seeing or feeling or reading every conceivable outcome. Some things that seemingly have no correlation to one another at all can suddenly correlate and have compounding consequences. You only need to have a very basic knowledge of the butterfly effect to know that's true.
It could simply be the word manipulate. When I use that word, to me, it means 'change the outcome.' Manipulation to me, being what I can do, I don't feel is the same as having free will. It's crossing a line. There's no doubt about that. Now if you mean reading a person well enough to facilitate them in reaching a place they are already trying to go, I don't see that as manipulation. I understand what you mean though. I word things differently tailored to the person I'm speaking with because it facilitates communication and prevents misunderstanding. That isn't manipulation. But, I do see sometimes just how easy it is especially with certain people to set triggers to cause reactions. When I was young with this I had things blow up in my face from testing those limits. It's important to set your own rules, guidelines, and boundaries.
As a side note though, the answer to your original question I'm sure you can see from the comments is obviously yes. That's why it is such a volatile subject. I don't believe it is directed at you as much as it is directed to the subject itself, and for good reason...
Even if it seems like it's in the best interest of everyone or with the best intentions, manipulation has its repercussions. They have many unintended consequences you never see coming. That being said, I took it upon myself to manipulate a sociopath because of a very serious situation involving many people's lives. I opened myself up to every thought, emotion, or any other energy in order to manipulate a very complicated layered situation. I was sick for weeks after. I'd do it again if I had to do it over no matter the toll it took on me because of the consequences of doing nothing, but under normal circumstances, it isn't advisable because there are always side effects, and you cannot cover every conceivable possibility.
Living with a depressed person
It's difficult to find patience, but if he's actively seeking help to get himself out of this state that is very different than someone who wants nothing but eternal misery especially one wanting to spread it. If I'm in a similar situation, I try to reinterpret the energy. Dark energy is only negative energy when you take it within you and let it consume you. By listening and letting him vent out the energy you are allowing him to keep it from consuming him. The key is focusing on the fact that it isn't yours. You don't own it. Don't let yourself own it. Practice it. If it works, you'll hopefully see him less consumed, and you'll know you had that effect on him. It can be a positive thing. And, with enough practice you'll help him channel that negative energy out on a way of recovery. But, if you find yourself owning his misery, then back off and try something else. Patience and perseverance only bring good things. Just keep awareness of what effect the energy is having on you, and know when to back off. If it becomes too much to handle, think about yourself and what you need for your life. You're no good to yourself or others if you let it consume you.
I've developed a number of mechanisms for dealing with the incredible amount of information that I'm constantly absorbing from everything around me. Luckily most of these mechanisms haven't been seriously unhealthy. Do other people live in maybe not strict OCD patterns, but patterns none the less that help bring stability to their lives? My cats think that I'm one of them because I perform the same general routines daily to the point that if I deviate from a pattern, my cats get uncomfortable and agitated.
On that note, do others have a very keen sense of their pets moods/emotions, and find pets have a greater fondness because of it?
updated by @kithor: 03/30/17 02:33:37PM
My wife who I've known now for 24 years was just a girl walking by me one day who I know nothing of, not a name or anything. I had such a dramatic feeling by her presence that I had not felt before or since. It took weeks for me to find out who she was and contact her. The chemistry was beyond anything I could imagine. The problem was, I rejected the belief of love at first sight, so despite the chemistry, I left her, and I struggled with what I was and what effect that would have on her. We broke up and got together several times until I realized the value of what this powerful feeling was, and I've been with her ever since. Every time I hug her I feel what I felt in that hallway 24 years ago. It's a constant reminder that the world we see is not all there is...
New to the word, not to the life
I've only recently found the word empath. I find it interesting that somehow all this time I've managed to avoid it though I have never defined this intuitive ability as empathy. Mostly because it grew up with me as a child, and it had negative consequences socially. It felt like manipulation except I never used it for selfish purposes, but I could so easily read someone and find the power in so few words that could affect a person so easily. I chose to use it to make weaker people stronger because I would feel the empowerment through them, but it was impossible for me to feel it within myself. I affected people in a positive way, and I found that I could feel a happiness through them that was impossible for me to feel within myself.
Eventually, like I imagine most people traveling this path would find, it wasn't sustainable, and it led to me being much more to them than they were to me. I actually felt very little for anyone at all. But, there were certain people that were not like others that immediately I could sense out of a crowd or just by passing them by.
I have felt very little good from this ability for nearly 3 decades. The first decade I felt mostly strong overwhelming negative emotions that I would just seem to feed off of especially very broken people. I had to get away from those people because it felt like trying to breath through water. In situations like that it would become almost a cyclical paradox where I could not tell whether I was the broken one or they were. Those desperate times I tried to fix them, and oddly managed to succeed, only to find out that we were both broken, but what I had done for them had done nothing for me except eliminate double the negative emotions.
Around the second decade I found a way to use reasoning and philosophical thinking, and also conditioning to find ways to actually shut it off completely. Of course that only led to a container slowly being filled until it was overflowing, and drowning me. I tweaked the system over and over again, adding different rules and guidelines like avoiding eye contact, avoiding groups of people, and avoiding touching strangers especially.
I avoided funerals or people that had just suffered profound loss. My mind became so attuned that I could walk around people, pick up their auras, see a glimpse of what they were, and then avoid them if necessary. I didn't look for the good. I avoided the bad. I slowly began to stop listening to the answers that would appear from nowhere or stop reacting to shifts of energy that seemed to draw me to people or circumstances. I kept my eyes to the ground and pushed forward with a life void of personal meaning except for one person in my life.
Eventually the system started backfiring and I was not only not feeling anything at all, but I would lose time, and I felt fogged. My anxiety was near nuclear, and though I didn't realize it then, it was because I had somehow managed to completely stifle what I am. Living with no feeling at all is entirely different than living with negative feeling to the point of thoughts of death. The first decade was the latter, the second was the prior.
I've spent the last decade first trying to understand what I had done, and start tearing the machine I built down until I suddenly realized why I had put it there in the first place. The machine and the reason for it was my very identity. The machine I built had me unaware of what I truly was.
I somehow managed to work through it and piece by piece the bigger picture appeared, and I realized that the very ability that I was trying to stifle and restrain I had been using all along. Without embracing the ability, it took a physical toll of debilitating anxiety to use the ability when I had to. Now, however, I am back where I began, realizing I have an ability that can affect myself, others, and the conundrum of its ethical boundaries.
To be honest I find most of the commandments and other such survival programs useless at this late in the game. I've become experienced in probably the worst way, but yet stronger in it because of it. The side effects from this ability are no longer from the ability itself, but from the controls I put into place to try to control it. What I've lost and I'm trying to find through this is the identity I left behind even though I already know that it isn't what I was nor what I built, but a product of the two along with the understanding I have now.
I suppose this novel is in some part a way of introducing myself, but also a warning to those who are new at finding they have this ability that if they try to leash it. If they try to stifle or control it, they may find that a few decades of suffering have gone by that perhaps could have been avoided if they had been open and honest with the ability itself.
All this being said, I've experienced much, and if i can be of help to others, I'm available to those in need or curious to what I've experienced. Perhaps I can learn a thing or two in the process...
updated by @kithor: 02/27/17 09:43:30AM