Am I being gaslighted?

Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
8 months ago
197 posts

I'm still not exactly sure what that means. All I know is that my wife does things no one in their right mind would do, and she will not stop no matter what I say to her. It's as if she can't help it, yet she is aware of what she is. She may not actually believe she is a narc, but as least, she no longer argues about it. I see her agreeing with me as part of the manipulation. The lies and manipulation have no logic behind it. This puzzle of a person is beyond my understanding. You would think I would know her after 25+ years of being together. I can't figure out what motive she has other than to break my will or drive me away. If you want to know a person, find out what motivates them. It's pretty easy normally, but when it comes to my own wife I can't get my mind around it.

No, she is not in any way a genuine person, although, she does have moments of clarity. She had one last week. I saw her true self for about a minute. Once again, I see this as part of another manipulation. It was a way of making me think there is still hope she can learn to be genuine. It worked for a time. Then I had a conversation with my Aunt. 

My cousin is married to an extreme narc. He has completely withdrawn from her and his family. Being a man of honor, he won't leave her. She has controlled the entire family for years by holding her own children over the heads of their grandparents(My aunt and uncle). She threatens to take them away or simply tells the kids lies that they fully believe. She gives her kids anything and everything they want and breaks their spirits with ridicule. She completely controls them and turns them against the rest of the family and their father. She gets violent! My aunt and I had a very long conversation comparing my wife to her daughter-in-law. They are the same! They do the same things. They think the same way. They are in such denial, they both tell blatant lies that are so transparent EVERYONE knows it's a lie, yet they believe they are fooling us. What arrogance! Well, after five hours at the kitchen table we all came to the conclusion that the main issue is severe insecurity. They are both motivated by the fear of seeing themselves for what they truly are. They can't accept it. My cousin is also an empath. Like my uncle. They are two of the most compassionate men I know. They have both given up trying to help her. 

My wife has caused the death or disappearance of many of my cats. Well, last week I came home to my dog tied to a post choking on a leash she had slipped around his neck. Not a to a collar. The leash was acting like a noose that tightened as he moved. I first heard what sounded like a dying turkey and felt his anguish and confusion. Then I saw what she had done. He had peed on the carpet again. He's old and he can't hold it as long as he use too, so she was punishing him. The reason she gave me for doing this was that she subconsciously didn't want me to go to my brother's funeral. I had hoped she wouldn't try to stop me from going. She did this as I was about to get ready to leave. Can she not understand why we have to go to funerals? I went anyway.  

For years now, I thought I could somehow get through to her. I know now I can't and have given up completely. She reads my email and my posts on this forum. I hope she reads this one.


updated by @zacharias: 04/09/19 12:07:11AM
michelle
@michelle
8 months ago
254 posts
@zacharias

I certainly feel for you. The snooping indicates great insecurity but the animal abuse is a red flag and something else.

I deal daily with my son, in certain ways similar. I just don't know what to think of the bizzare changes in him.

I raised him so I can see what he was and it is a great relief when that shines through still.

I can't help but think that he has an unsavory spirit attachment which delights in keeping me off balance and so stressed that it is a herculean effort to keep illness at bay.

Mostly what he attacks/destroys is our home and I dread ever depending on him to take care of the animals if I'm sick.

The change is astounding. He was an empathetic soul and kind...and I'm not just referring to when he was a little boy. Now, he can be a petty tyrant.

What I find is best to deal with him is to stay in control of my emotions [not always easy] and calmly give back what he says he wants. Like go ahead and quit your job, pack your stuff and go live in the woods. Do it now,

Well that silences him immediately. It's like all the huff and puff energy is deflated.

The thing is he likes his job, mostly. He's risen quickly for one his age on pure talent, fairness with his crew and responsibility. He's gotten what he wanted, to be in charge/salary and to do his thing with the food the restaurant sells.

Outside of that environment, he's reckless, doesn't care for people anymore and at home he can be a tyrant, extremely messy and mean. Then sanity hits and I see the real him.

Does your wife ever show times of being reasonable? It seems to me that many people are just going crazy these days. I believe that a great force of negativity has been unbounded in the world and in families.

I guess that your biggest difficulty would be your children if you left. Could you take them with you?


--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.
michelle
@michelle
8 months ago
254 posts
You might want to read the material on Organic Portals [OP] I posted in robert-caffer's post, Yes My Dad's A Narc!

Here's another on OPs:

http://tinyurl.com/y35ng5k9


--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.
TigerLily
TigerLily
@tigerlily
8 months ago
501 posts
@zacharias I can give you all you need to know gaslighting, I experienced this greatly last year and with an ex fiance. First, I'm really sorry for all this you are going through. To hear about your cats and now the dog, really breaks my heart. Your wife is abusing pets.

Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation played out by another person to basically test your "sanity" The way these manipulators or narcs do this is few ways. The first and foremost is to convince you of your sanity and to second guess yourself. Which then leads to being confused, not speaking up for yourself, thinking you did wrong, apologizing for things when not your fault. Just to name a few. They tell all kinds of lies as well to keep you in this trap.

Best way to counter this is keep your confidence and vibration high. This is you wife and can call her out on her BS versus a coworker who can go to HR and say you are being discriminated against. Yes, gaslighting narcs can and will do this. Just know what you are right and keep your ground on it. Tying up a poor innocent creature such as an elderly dog for having an accident is not the solution. She could have called the vet. But dont fall for her excuses as to "teach them a lesson" type of thing, or whatever she may say. We all know pets have accidents when something is wrong....
Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
8 months ago
197 posts

First of all, thank you for your replies. My wife is a narc, yes, but, she's also my daughters mother. I can't leave her and I can't live with her. I can, however, pray for her and forgive her. I'm well practiced in forgiveness, so I will again. I don't have to deal with her BS anymore. I have taken full control of the house. My daughter is with me on this. She supports me. This fact has raised my vibe to new levels.

It scares me to think she could be a soulless person. I don't want to believe this. I want her with me. I want the connection I asked for 26 years ago. I keep giving up thinking it will never happen and then I try again. I have to. She's all I have. If I left her I would never have a relationship with another woman. I have many female friends. They fill the role that my wife can't. Good enough. 

I have been using her own tactics against her. Except instead of telling lies, I tell her the bitter truth. I stopped holding back to spare her, and she loves me(if she's capable of love) more than ever.  It's that push-pull thing they do. Show them kindness, they use it against you. Show them anger, they back down and want you more. I don't mean uncontrolled outrage. It's more like incredulity mixed with disgust, if that makes sense. This works for me. She isn't very good at being a narc. She just isn't that smart. If she was, she'd be dangerous, yet she has never been violent to me. 

This relationship has actually been very good for me, now that I think about it. It has given me the confidence to fight much harder battles. I had to know without shadow of doubt that I am right. The word "right" is short for righteous, I believe. Being righteous allows me to stand on principle. Tempered with humility, and with God at my side, I can't be moved. I have a power now that can help change the world. I won't be broken. I won't be defeated. I should thank her. 

michelle
@michelle
8 months ago
254 posts

@zacharias


I did not mean to imply that your wife was souless. The subject of OPs is complicated. I believe that many humans are psychologically damaged, that it is hard for anyone to escape being damaged to some extent in our world system.


I mentioned earlier [or somewhere else] that OPs are a natural way for a soul becoming. The problem in our world is the large number of psychopaths and sociopaths. They do not fit the definition of insanity; they know right from wrong. They just don't care that they hurt others and never lose any sleep over their wrongdoings. Some never become criminal but some do and many can be found in the halls of government and other institutions, plus we have the heads of corporations which fit the bill too. There is no cure for these people. These are the people that @robert-caffer was referring to who rule our world. A good book to read on this is, "The Mask of Sanity.": http://tinyurl.com/yysgnhtv


The thing with OPs is that they drain our energies, specifically soul energy needed for advancement of the soul or spirit as Tom Montalk defines it. In a perfect world, they would learn from souled beings. In esoteric terms it would be said they steal soul energy, in modern terms it would be said that they mirror soul behavior. This is how I believe they learn and eventually grow a soul in some future lifetime. So it pays for them to grow up in a stable loving environment...something harder and harder to come by these days.


In gnostic teachings, one is warned to avoid 'dancing' with them where one is led into base reactions to their games. However, one can advance soul development through proper treatment of them.


This is know as fusing of the magnetic center which I think you exemplified in your last post. It is the taking of negative energy/emotions and turning them into something positive....like not slipping into base emotions and reactions but rather to firmly mirror truth back to them; exactly what you are doing!


This is know as the 'fire' that fuses the magnetic center which is the fusing of the lower and higher impulses of the soul. That they are fused at the heart chakra. This is my understanding, to the best of my ability.


And that it takes many times, 'in the fire' until one overcomes the sway of the lower centers where the soul and human become one. Not all are up to this. It takes great mental and spiritual fortitude to withstand this. So, for others not up to the task, maybe it is better not to 'dance' with their energies, to avoid being dragged into lower behaviors.


When one is on this path, and is gaining knowledge and soul energy, the system [ie. Matrix] will move to insert many of these people into their life. They are commonly family and friends but also outside influences....maybe those people you interacted with at the music concert?


You are correct in feeling grateful to your wife for such a learning process. I do think that in some cosmic design, OPs or damaged souled people do offer us chances at soul advancement. Thank you Zach for sharing your experience and allowing me to learn through that! 💖


As for my son, I know he is an empath and I feel not gulity, but responsibility towards him. I was well on my path of gaining knowledge and strength when the matrix inserted two incidents exactly one year apart which nearly killed me and definately broke me down. The 1st was a psychopath which terrorized my son and I and eventually abducted, beat and tortured me for a day until I escaped. The 2nd was at a party where I was drugged and raped...at 52 years old!


Welcome ptsd into my life which the medical and mental health systems made much worse. I needed loving kind healing and understanding, not drugs and trying to 'fix' my mind.


Trauma disrupts the endocrine system and understanding that and self treatments thru supplements and holistic other methods is where I won the battle of bringing myself back to some normality.


This has been a most difficult endeavor while dealing with my son's behavior. Family members can develope ptsd by living with one so affected. It is my son's ingestion of alcohol, which he has no tolerance for [a condition he inherited from me] which I believe opened him up to negative spirit attachment. This does not have to be demonic; it can just be some dead dude which prompts and pokes him into certain behaviors.


With a gaining of my health and strength, I, like you, am determined to take back control of my house. One of our dogs is 16 years old and showing signs of the death process. His legs get injured easily...esp. from our younger German Shepard, and does not assimilate his food well...he's very thin like aged people become. My son is finally showing compassion. I've asked him to put alcohol aside [not telling him; that would have opposite effect] so he can be there completely with his dog who gave him so much loyalty and love, before he dies.


I will never give up on my son. And I believe he will heal as I will continue to do so.


Thanks again for your insight.


Warm Regards,


Michelle




--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.

updated by @michelle: 04/11/19 10:24:30AM
Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
8 months ago
197 posts

Gnostic principles are incredibly interesting. I do want to learn more in time. When I went back to church I had difficulty with the baptist theology. Soon after, God lead me to the gospel of Thomas. I was so excited I read it three times. This made sense. It opened up new understandings, and I was able to find those spiritual people in the church that transcended theology. I will study more.


Thank you for explaining. I don't have enough time anymore to study much. I work six days a week. Because of this, I don't go to church much anymore either. Mostly I hate the effect of being drained. I fall asleep every time. After a tough week I don't have anything left to give. I'm the custodian of the church. I clean up after them. On Sunday, I don't even want to look at them. I have to know what they have inside and say nothing. It sucks picking up a half eaten sucker or a piece of gum and know who put it there. Now, what your saying sort of answers the question as to why I'm being drained. I was told "everyone is working out their salvation" well they don't need me for that. I was ok with it as long as it was doing them some good, but I started doubting that it was doing any good at all. So why bother going. I may rethink this.


Now for the serious discussion: I was your son. I did the same he is doing now. You wouldn't have been able to tell that I at 16 was an empath. I hated the world for what it did to me without regret. I acted on that hatred by tearing apart the house. It started with putting holes in the wall and led to destroying mirrors, furniture, anything that would break. I started drinking at 16. I would sneak out at night and tear apart the city. I was living havoc. You could say I did the worst things for the best possible reasons. I was broken. I felt damaged. I couldn't bring myself to care anymore. Not for myself at least. It was self destruction. It led to an incident where by I had climbed a building, after drinking all night, and jumped off. I wanted to kill everyone. Instead I killed myself. 


My story might be to extreme for this or any forum. I was born into a horror show and raised by a demon. This is not just dramatic talk. It really happened. For so long, this was a family secret. No one talked about it til I was in my 20's. My mother is the only one that will discuss it. She was a prisoner of that demon for three years. She fully recovered and so did I. It was her love for me that got me through it. It was God's love that saw her through it. She never gave up on me. I am today who I am because of her. I wish I hadn't made it so hard on her. She was always on my side. Her prayers saved me. Her prayer brought me back from death. I know, it's extreme. 


I believe your son will find his way. He will look back and see what your love has meant to him. I'll be praying for this. Some decisions we make along the way can destroy us. If you can keep him from choosing those things, the rest will be lessons he uses to form his character. He'll be a better man for it. 


Something great happened last night. My wife had read this post and saw for herself what she is! I think she finally accepted it. She had a major break through. She said she'd had gotten angry at first, and felt humiliated. When she came to me to talk about it. She had worked through it. She was ready to listen. She wants to be a better person. I'm going to start showing her love again. This is great! I think we are taking a new road together. Now it's my turn to step up. 


This is a lesson for us all. We all deal with narcs. Maybe they can be turned back toward the light. It just takes brutal honesty and an iron will. Oh, and love. Lots and lots of love.


Thank you for sharing so much, @michelle , we are here for eachother. There are others here that need you. Minister to them now. I'm good.


michelle
@michelle
8 months ago
254 posts
@zacharias

That is wonderful news! Blessings on you, your wife and daughter.

Thank you for sharing your life and know that it strengthens my resolve to never give up on my son.

Before I go, a gift for you. I looked into buying all 3 volumes of
Boris Mouravieff's, "Gnosis." Used they would cost over $100. I found them online pdf for free. Happy studying:

SNIP:

Boris Mouravieff And Gnosis

Boris Mouravieff was an enigmatic 'third man', known to Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, who found and learned to practice what he clearly believed to be the complete system of which only 'fragments' had been previously published in Ouspensky's 'In Search of the Miraculous'.

On this basis, he formed the 'Centre d'Etudes chretiennes esoteriques' in Geneva - now closed.

Many of his discoveries are described in his book Gnosis, which contains in its three volumes the fundamental components of that Christian esoteric teaching revealed by Ouspensky in fragmentary form.

This Gnosis is not a modern statement of the second century texts known as 'Gnosticism', but a previously unpublished ancient Christian knowledge tradition.

READ MORE AND LINKS TO BOOKS:
http://tinyurl.com/yclxno3o

PS: Reading this much online can hurt your eyes. [I still intend to buy those volumes!] Use the screen filters here to protect your eyesight..use F.lux and/or Twilight apps for your devices:

GO TO:
http://tinyurl.com/y3ul6eta


--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.
Cat Whisperer
Cat Whisperer
@cat-whisperer
8 months ago
787 posts
@zacharias
What @tigerlily said is true, she explained gaslighting perfectly as I am married to a gaslighter/borderline narc too. It is due to insecurity for sure. Even when I call out my husband on his gaslighting he act like he doesn’t know what I’m talking about.
So sorry to hear about your pets. That is scary when someone has the capacity to kill/abuse an animal. I really don’t want to put your wife down when I say this, so please don’t take it as such. However, if someone has the capacity to kill animals for their own satisfaction they have sociopathic tendencies. I have read about children that kill animals for satisfaction that turn into killers later on in life. History here but don’t want to go into details.
I feel for you out in this situation....just keep your vibration high and live your own truth
Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
8 months ago
197 posts

Yes, thank you @tigerlily for making it clear. I've noticed two different types of gaslighters. Those that know what they are doing and those that don't. Denial is a major factor. They lie to themselves the most. This is why they can tell you blatant lies and believe it themselves. 


Those that know what they are doing, of course, are more sinister. These are sociopaths. They like to break people. They want to ruin you for their own satisfaction. I remember hearing a woman talk about this on NPR. She had written a book about it. What it's like to be a sociopath. It was enlightening. 


Confessions of a Sociopath: A Life Spent Hiding in Plain Sight


I wish these people didn't exist. It's hard to understand, although, we have too in order to deal with them. In a work environment they can craft schemes and do some real harm. This is their entertainment. 





 




updated by @zacharias: 04/13/19 08:21:12AM
Cat Whisperer
Cat Whisperer
@cat-whisperer
8 months ago
787 posts
Zacharias "]

Yes, thank you https://empathcommunity.eliselebeau.com/tigerlily>: @tigerlily for making it clear. I've noticed two different types of gaslighters. Those that know what they are doing and those that don't. Denial is a major factor. They lie to themselves the most. This is why they can tell you blatant lies and believe it themselves. 

Those that know what they are doing, of course, are more sinister. These are sociopaths. They like to break people. They want to ruin you for their own satisfaction. I remember hearing a woman talk about this on NPR. She had written a book about it. What it's like to be a sociopath. It was enlightening. 


Confessions of a Sociopath: A Life Spent Hiding in Plain Sight

I wish these people didn't exist. It's hard to understand, although, we have too in order to deal with them. In a work environment they can craft schemes and do some real harm. This is their entertainment. 




 



You hit the nail on the head about denial....my husband is the same way, pathological liar that gaslights. It is hard to deal with, like you, I could leave but I always forgive again. As empaths, that’s just what we do
Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
8 months ago
197 posts

@cat-whisperer - As a woman you have an incredible strength you may not know about. I'm always surprised most women have not figured this out. I am in awe of women that have. It's very subtle, yet powerful. Please find it and use it to help yourself. 


True forgiveness doesn't happen without repentance. The word repent means to turn away. Without the other side changing their behavior we have to forgive over and over. The resolution doesn't happen until both sides do their part. We can forgive for ourselves and let go, but we can't make them truly repent. So we forgive, but we don't forget. I don't know what the answer is, other than patience. 

Cat Whisperer
Cat Whisperer
@cat-whisperer
8 months ago
787 posts

@zacharias....Awwww, thank you ☺️ You have strength and love beyond words to tolerate your situation, most men would have up and left wayyy before a few years in.

Trigger warning here!

I’m going to be real candid here...last fall I had had my fill, to the point of seeking legal counsel. Something he still does not know about. But I had to keep one last promise that I had made to him almost one year ago  to the day. I told him if he ever touched me again(hair puller), I would call the police so I kept my promise. Now this got through the grapevine pretty fast, rural community here where he was born and raised. Just wish I’d done it before tolerating it for 13 years

Anyhow...so now, the games and gaslighting have stopped..for the most part. If it does , I call him on it, lying too. Don’t get me wrong, he still does it but I’m in control now. He has come to realize that I ain’t playin’

Embarrassment is a strong and effective teacher


updated by @cat-whisperer: 04/13/19 06:02:35PM
michelle
@michelle
8 months ago
254 posts

I believe this is an important topic, particularly for empaths because, although we are very good at picking up the hidden in others, we can be fooled, especially when it comes to sociopaths and psychopaths.


I often wondered how I was taken in, considering that I am an empath. Well 1st off I was a single mum with little support...no need to expand on that. And, my dad had just died which was hard and I was exausted from staying with him @ the VA hospice. I also had some disagreements with my mum and family over how he was handled. All in all it was a bad and distressing situation where I became alienated from my family.


When I say it was a psychopath that hurt me, I mean it. He was inhuman and overshadowed by something inhuman. @zacharias I saw the demon that possessed him. I have talked about this elsewhere, in other threads.


What I really want to examine why empaths can be taken in and leave this as a warning for others. So, you can see that I was at a physical and emotional low, vulerable. But that's not the whole picture.


The thing is with them there's nothing there to read. And I think we gear ourselves to reading negative emotions and pain. Then along comes the spider, so to speak!


The man I met was known to me from years past. I moved away and so did he. So I really didn't know much about him. Except that he was intelligent [a big attraction for me] and he was charming.


After awhile, he got me talking about my family and foolish me I related the whole alienating situation I was in with my family...because of this, they didn't know till years later what happened to me. I literally had no support except my teenage son at first. The psycho tried to separate my son from me too. But before that, he shared his own tales of woe and his family who didn't understand him.


This is how they operate. They are talented at reading people...actually they study us like the predator that they are. Then they begin to mirror our own qualities back to us! Since there are no emotions for us to read, we fall for it. This is all part of their game and they groom us for their plans of amusement, money, or what ever else they want. The only thing inside of them is greed...Greed for money, amusement, and inflicting pain.


I still run into that MF, yes he got away with it scott free...long story but he was friends with the police. Late last year he came right up to me at the store and started talking to me. It was all I could do not to vomit. And triggered again with the ptsd...I'd like to say that I got a few licks in but all I feel is helpless and afraid when I see him about; let alone come up to me. So, I mumbled something ineffective and walked away. Plus, if you cross these creatures, they retaliate. He damaged my car before in the dead of night...no witnesses.


In collusion, I think it very important that we learn all we can about them. Here's one article to start, specifically for empaths. I'll post others and books later:


Here Is What Happens When An Empath Meets A Sociopath By Jessica Reinhardt, September 30th 2016 READ: http://tinyurl.com/y4ruq3k3




--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.

updated by @michelle: 04/14/19 06:27:17AM
Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
8 months ago
197 posts

@cat-whisperer - Seems that you have found that strength. We have to get to the point where we say "NO MORE". Good. 

TigerLily
TigerLily
@tigerlily
8 months ago
501 posts
It sounds like you are all making excuses for the narc and gas lighters in your life. You all have the option to leave, but choosing to stay. Which makes me question, why post this?

Every empath needs to understand the dynamics of a narc and their gas lighting ways or you fall into their trap. We feel what is wrong, but yet also feel what is right. It is confusing when it comes to love.
Unconditional love is not based on conditions. Cild, money, homes, etc. It is far more than that. Tying up and hurting other creatures, is the the same psychotic tendencies that can be used on a human.

As an empath you are already seeing and feeling something is wrong. I see no reason why not discuss it, but to to then later discuss "it is all good" it is not. These people are holding any empath back to what our true purpose is, so yes, you are being gas lighted. You fell into the trap of a gas lighter. The gas lighter is taking away your confidence and power, drawing back to them. Just so one can keep quiet and do what the narc wants, and make excuses for the narc.

If you are doubting mostly you are feeling that something is wrong and what to question it. It is wrong. If you need help/guidance on this, be open to suggestions of others and their experiences.
Cheshire Cat
Cheshire Cat
@cheshire-cat
8 months ago
1,441 posts

I used to be a therapist. We must be careful with diagnosis. Narcs do not normally hurt animals, esp. dogs. They usually love dogs, who give them unconditional affection. Psychopaths and sociopaths are the ones who hurt, and may even kill animals. They can also graduate to hurting children and spouses if they are not stopped. It is up to the other adult to protect helpless children and animals. I hope that will be done here, since I know empaths are never so selfish as to forget that! 

Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
8 months ago
197 posts

@tigerlily - I understand where you are coming from. If I were to document every offence over the years I'd run out of paper. If I was given an indication that she would physically injure my daughter I would leave before that happened. The hurt she has caused psychologically and spiritually is worse. It has caused deep wounds that take longer to heal than meer physical damage. I had reason to leave years ago. My daughter would have came with me without argument. It makes me look weak and stupid not too, but your question was "Why post this?". 


I got what I wanted out of it. I wanted her to see what she is and turn away from it. All indications are she has finally understood I will not tolerate another incident. She has been coming to me to admit things she's still doing that I had asked her not to do anymore. We are working through this in a way that isn't so final. I give her grace if she gets out in front of it and asks me to forgive her. If not, she will be alone. That did sink in deep enough that she has changed the way she behaves. Although, it's only been two weeks. Lets see what happens long term. 


It's very difficult to see this life as something to enjoy. There is always suffering. We suffer through it and must accept it in order to move past it. There is a much larger issue here. It's what happens in the next life. That is what I'm concerned about.


Forgiveness isn't for the weak hearted. It seems like a sacrifice to give up our animus and open ourselves up to more hurt. It looks like were just duped into allowing others to run roughshod over us. That isn't what is really happening. If I were to react to every time I see another suffer I would be a very prolific serial killer. I would love to put down every human that harms another. Being an empath means I see what they are capable of, and worse, what they have done. I trained for many years to be the toughest mofo in the room no matter what room I was in. I do stand up and stop it when I see it, but I can't stop all of it. There is a purpose to suffering beyond our feeble understanding. 


I hate to get into "The Purpose of Suffering". It's a subject that won't be fully explained here. C.S. Lewis has explored this topic well, if your interested. The main question you want an answer to is why suffer a narc? It's selfish, actually. Like I said, I want to be the toughest mofo in the room. There are many narcs I'm dealing with. Some are on the level of sociopath and I see what damage they doing. Other people don't see it and they would target me if I simply pulled my knife and ended them. So I choose another way. I want to save them from themselves. As Empath, at our core we all do. We just don't know how to go about. Now I do. I apply these lessons I've learned from this experience to new confrontations. It feels good to have new weapons in my arsenal. I'm ready for battle. In fact, I've already begun the fight. I stand in place waiting for the attack to come. Once movement happens I can redirect the energy back at the attacker. This is our gift as Empath. We are warriors. All we have to do is stand. 


Let's use another example just so you get a full understanding. I have a pet raccoon I call Edgar. I have a few, but they are all named Edgar. I call them pets because I feed them. Not because I pet them. Edgar just came up to me asking for food. So I said yes, again, even though he just went through the trash. He walks all over my tables and knocks thing down. He's a menace. I should pop him with my slingshot until he leaves, or just kill him, gut him, eat him, and make a coonskin hat out of him. Instead I let him eat the cat food which he is doing right now. Why would I? I think this is something you understand without me explaining. 


 

Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
8 months ago
197 posts

@michelle - You said you saw the demon on the psychopath that hurt you. My mother saw the demon that hurt us. I see them out in public now and then. They wear a mask. I see the mask too. Is this what you saw? 

michelle
@michelle
8 months ago
254 posts

Hi Zacharias, I'll answer specifics soon. Yeah I see 'em alot.

My son threw at me last night, he was taking a young labrador retriever home from a co-worker...and the dog got here about 10 last night. I've got a german shepard and border collie plus cats...so it's pretty active here right now. The owners did nothing with this lab and he's very excitable and the german shepard is none too happy.

I'd also like to state that my son was never abusive with our pets but he was neglectful of them if I needed him to care for them...this is more an oppositional defiance dynamic betw/ us but can be crappy for the pets.

Don't know if this dog situation will work but son today starts 9 day vacation and I told him dog or alcohol; can't have both. Lately, he has been more reasonable and cut back when I asked. We'll see but I don't want to return the dog to the original owners. They say they're now getting their kids a rabbit....poor bunny!

Specific breathing has helped greatly w/ the ptsd and my reactions to son. If any want info on breathing, ask.

I also want to touch on expecting people to leave situations and what that can result in.

Be back after the pandemonium settles down. 🐶🐅🐕🐱🐺🐈😽!




--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.

updated by @michelle: 04/21/19 08:47:16AM
michelle
@michelle
8 months ago
254 posts

@zacharias 


Ok, I'm getting interference and this is my 3rd attempt at posting.


The psycho's face actually turned into something reptilian. Before this, his eyes went vacant. It spoke to me and said, "I'm not going to rape you; I'm into bloodlust." This is one, the worst, of lifelong encounters with demons. Let me give another example.


This is back when my son was a baby. He was sleeping in my bed with me. I was in a loose sleep where my mind was still lucid [I'm a lucid dreamer]. I was walking along the rim of a deep crater, talking with a male friend. I looked into the crater and a long serpentine demon came up out of the depths and was quickly upon me. I awoke immediately and turned to see if my son was okay.


My bedcovers then rose high with that thing under them and it was growling and snarling. I was afraid but determined and banished it with The Lord's Prayer, said out loud.


They can take any form. I saw one, which was trying to get me into dialogue with it, that looked like the Joker from the Batman dark knight movies, only more horrific.


One of my specialities is sight to see them. It appears that you have it too, Zacharias. And yes, you are correct; we are warriors. If you have sight you may also see them in the ambient air outside as blobs.


Our planet is infested with this vermin. Many cases of mental illness can be attributed to demons. Indigenous peoples around the world know this. Too many people just don't believe in them anymore.


@hop-daddy mentioned, in another thread, where he thought homeless people psychic, saying things to him that they couldn't have known. The homeless most likely weren't psychic but demons can read our thoughts. Possession can make people appear to be psychic while all along it is a demon doing this.


When you incarnate onto Earth, they know everything about you. And if you are a strong lighted being, with great POTENTIAL for soul advancement, they will do much to deter you from your path. OPs are particularly open to influence by them and many narcs, sociopaths and/or psychopaths will be inserted into your life script.


Psychopaths aside, please, please don't be quick to judge another as a narc or maybe a sociopath. They may be a soul in great distress. You might have been labled in your youth, Zacharias, but we here all know you had a rough childhood [as could my son by past behavior]. Trauma can do some wierd things to people's minds. One of the things victims of trauma can carry is RAGE. And others are afraid of this rage, this deep wound. Many a therapist are. And people in your life are very uncomfortable with any telling of the traumas; they'll tell you to move on. What this does is essentially censor your healing!


I might not be explaining this well enough, so I want All to listen to an audio interview. Here, a journalist [Jen Moore] has been helping victims of pedophilia, at the hands of some very high ups [you'll find alot of demons there]. Jen was trying to bring this to the attention of authorities for prosecution. She died [murdered in all probability] a few days after this interview:


GO TO: https://tinyurl.com/yag3nobk


Zach [do you go by this name?] please try and stay as neutral as possible in dealing with demons. There is a fine line between righteous anger [divine] and anger of the personality. I gave you a link to the "Gnosis," volumes, if you will, read the 1st volume on the 'I' of the personality and the real 'I' of your soul.


I still have more to say on expecting people to leave bad situations, I'll get to that later. On an ending note, here, let me say if you post a 1000 times about your home situation, I will show up and listen a 1000 times, too. I get you on forgiveness and wish you strength in all that you do.




--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.

updated by @michelle: 04/23/19 06:03:18AM
TigerLily
TigerLily
@tigerlily
8 months ago
501 posts
@zacharias

Be careful. People dont change overnight. She will portray as changed and then slowly start her tactics again. Then you will end up in the same position as this post again. When I said why post this, is because you spoke unhighly of her and then pretty much saying "all good" when it is not. You sound like my friend who complains and talks negatively of his narc girlfriend of 5 years, but will never leave due to codependency and make excuses for them. Making excuses for another is not "ok"

I really would not want to see your daughter hurt as your wife has with animals. As chesire-cat mentioned, socio paths and psychopaths....you must find the caution tape. They dont just change. Google signs of a socio path and psychopath.
Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
8 months ago
1,046 posts

Hi zacharia.....you definitely need to cleanse your house and property. There's something else driving your wife. It's not all her. I'd go through your house with a smudge and smudge her REAL good. This being is the narcissist. And pretty strong too...


updated by @womanwhowalks: 04/24/19 11:27:14AM
Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
one month ago
197 posts

I re-read all the replies here hoping I could get some incite on what to do next. It's been 7 months now of hoping. Everything was going very well over the summer with my wife and family. I quit my job and focused on them. I was so excited about this new start and I guess I got complacent thinking everything was peaches and cream from now on. I see how what you all have been saying has been right on target. 

I keep thinking I can save her from herself. Like I have so much knowledge now that it would be easy. She made progress. She's been reading the Course in Miracles over and over again. I talk and talk thinking she's on the same page I am. She went back to a few of those narc tendencies she had before. We talk about it and we get past it. I didn't expect her to change over night. I knew this would take time. I see that spirit in her every now and then and think she'll get rid of it. I don't think so anymore.

I've had to do some serious soul searching trying to find those parts I've lost. It takes major effort considering those parts have been missing since early childhood. I have a plan on getting them back. So far it's going well. I'm getting there. At least I know what I need to do. The biggest obstacle in my way is now my wife. 

I still wonder about the relationship between Empath and Narc. I thought I had the answer. She pushes me to better myself, I push her, and we all get along. Except that isn't what happened. That spirit that controls her blinds her. This influence makes her go back to being that mean person that fights for control. It's a constant battle and I am tired. This soulless person has drained me completely. It's time to cut the cord.

I am always tired. I'm having a hard time getting anything done. It's not just me. My daughter is having the same issue. I left for a week to do a job and had plenty of energy. I even faced that fear of being overwhelmed and overcame it. I came back a new man, ready to take on the world again after checking out for a few months. Then I came back home and am immediately drained again. I want my life back.

I broke all connection with just about everyone. Even the good ones. I'm tired of being manipulated and used. I wanted to think on my own for awhile. I went to the mountains and traveled around talking with my best friends, total strangers. I got the idea that if I gave up all fear and emotion I wouldn't be manipulated any longer and could get back to being a part of society again. I'm still working at it.

I had a bad fight with my wife. I told her it's over and I don't want to work it out. Can't wait to see what she does next. I can't say that she's a NARC as in diagnosing her condition. She may be BPD. Doesn't matter, she'll react. Probably already has. This is spiritual warfare.

Hop Daddy
Hop Daddy
@hop-daddy
one month ago
1,065 posts

@zacharias :


Sorry to hear of your continued struggles. A few questions to try to help you sort this out:


1) Was your wife always a narc since you've known here? 


2) I don't know how long you have lived at this property. But have you noticed things have gotten progressively worse with your wife since living there?


3) Have you in the past year travelled out of town with your wife and noticed that she is easier to be around when away from your property?


You mentioned that you think an entity there is making things worse. I've seen this first hand in my own life. There have been periods when it feels like a black cloud follows us around causing depression, anger between some of us, and financial strain. I wonder if this entity is causing you to be at odds with each other and is bringing out the worst behavior with your wife? I personally believe and have witnessed that narcs are very easily manipulated/directed by negative entities.


Have you taken @womanwhowalks advice and tried to sage the home or hire a professional to try to cleanse it?




Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
one month ago
197 posts

Ok, Hop, here you go:


1) Was your wife always a narc since you've known here? 


-I didn't know what a narc was back then, but I can see that she had always been manipulating and controlive in very subversive ways. We moved close to her mother after her dad died. This is when she changed dramatically. 


2) I don't know how long you have lived at this property. But have you noticed things have gotten progressively worse with your wife since living there?


-I moved her to get away from her family. I haven't talked to them since. Things have slowly gotten better actually. She didn't see her family for a few years after we moved. The last 5 years she has been visiting her mom on her own and comes home with a different attitude. Now she goes every weekend.


3) Have you in the past year travelled out of town with your wife and noticed that she is easier to be around when away from your property?


-Yes. This summer I wanted to travel. I brought the family on a few of those trips. Others were for work or to be alone. When she came with me, she was always pleasant to be around. Even in a tent while it was raining. 


You mentioned that you think an entity there is making things worse. I've seen this first hand in my own life. There have been periods when it feels like a black cloud follows us around causing depression, anger between some of us, and financial strain. I wonder if this entity is causing you to be at odds with each other and is bringing out the worst behavior with your wife? I personally believe and have witnessed that narcs are very easily manipulated/directed by negative entities.


-YES. I've seen the shadow figure out of the corner of my eye at times. When we were at church we both saw this restless spirit outside the window. She said It was mine. I say it's hers. I know the spirits are there. I just don't care. I don't feel anything for them. I don't hold anything against them. I just don't want to be drained by them. I know full well that she is being influenced, because she finds those moments that I'm at my weakest, or when I'm about to do something really good for us. She disrupts the flow and I have to start over. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.


Have you taken   @womanwhowalks   advice and tried to sage the home or hire a professional to try to cleanse it?


-Yes. My Mother did a cleansing last year. I did a smudging though the house a few months ago. I may need to again. I have another sage stick on the kitchen table. 


The house across the street had been a major issue. The owners sold it to a woman that rescues animals. She smudged the house and has been rebuilding it. This house has had some seriously bad energy for the 7 years I've been here. On my first day after buying the house the feel from it was so bad that I thought about calling the police to go check it out. Since then I learned about all the horror that happened there. At least it's over now, or at least moved on.


I think what you're suggesting is happening. One more thing. If you remember, I was working at a church. I quit because they turned against me. I broke away from the church completely. I cut those cords. It was painful. I mean them no harm, but I had to get away.

michelle
@michelle
one month ago
254 posts

@zacharias I'm truly saddened to hear of your situation. I read of interfering entities and I want you to know that it is they that have targeted you. Your wife is being used for this purpose and that's sad but she most likely is beyond hope. If she truly is an OP, then she may or may not have potential for soul development, but this would be in future lives and not this one. I give you 2 videos.


The 1st is short and on OPs. I cannot say wether your wife is one or not, but you have lived with her long enough to know. OPs can be easily manipulated by outside forces but so can traumatized and/or people with personalitiy disorders, due to trauma.


This 2nd is over 3 hours long. It will explain why you have been targeted and who/what may ultimately be behind it. All the tools people use as defense may work one day and not the next. The only lasting defense is knowledge of and increased awareness.




--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.

updated by @michelle: 11/12/19 02:19:17AM
michelle
@michelle
one month ago
254 posts

FYI To finsh up on the 1st video above, here is one on psychopaths and how they fit into the whole scheme of things:




--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.

updated by @michelle: 11/12/19 01:31:44AM
Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
one month ago
197 posts

Well, my wife grew up with narc parents. Her grandfather was a Nazi. I'm not kidding. I found a old swastika pin in her mothers keepsake jar. She grew up as the youngest of three kids. This family bullies each other constantly. Her sister used to call her up just to make her cry and then say "I don't want to fight anymore". She was damaged. This treatment tore her soul apart. You understand why I still have compassion for her. You would too.

She had another breakthrough yesterday. She now wants to get rid of the demons. The ones feeding on her fear. She admitted it's her fear that brings them back. She asked God to take them away. This is a good step in the right direction, but when you stop feeding them they attack harder. She'll need help. I have to help. I'm going about this in a different way this time. I have to get out the way and let her help herself. What she is is a recovering narc. The insecurity doesn't allow her to see herself as she is, or whats happening. She is draining me and her daughter with her "need". She didn't believe that until now. I hope this sticks. I have no expectations this time. I'm not excited about it. I'm staying neutral.

Yes, I am the target. The entities have tried to use my daughter against me and my wife, friends, coworkers, Christians. It's been happening my whole life. They want me broken and to keep me that way, but there are other forces at work here too. The ones that want me to fulfill my purpose. They protected me during the worst times. They still do.

michelle
@michelle
one month ago
254 posts
@zacharias Yes, they or something else will reattach if she doesn't do the healing work. Trauma wounds are one way in. Other weakness might be character flaws, or beliefs about oneself...anything that resonates with the entities. Here's 3 videos I received about a week ago....perhaps something here which may help you all. Take good care of yourself!

PART 1:


PART 2


PART 3



--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.
michelle
@michelle
one month ago
254 posts

Also, a free book from Dr. William Baldwin, pioneer of Spirit Release Therapy...other books of his availiable online. Don't let the alien info throw info throw you off; he describes other entity attachments too.


https://tinyurl.com/y5ppm3q7




--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.

updated by @michelle: 11/13/19 06:19:07AM
Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
one month ago
197 posts

Thank you, @michelle I value all the information you have given me. I stay open to what they say in these videos because I know so little. The alien thing would be easy to dismiss, but there is something to it. I don't want to miss anything by closing off to it just because I hear something I don't agree with or understand. So no, I won't let it throw me off. You've been a God send. 

michelle
@michelle
one month ago
254 posts
@zacharias You mentioned staying neutral and this is an important discovery for you. Another way to put it is, do not be attached to the outcome. As sucky as the situation you're in is, there is the feeling that what you learn here is very important for your future.

There is a need to tell you something, like, "Keep your counsel," or "Keep something to yourself."

Maybe that will make sense to you?


--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.
Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
one month ago
197 posts

Makes perfect sense. I will from now on

Hop Daddy
Hop Daddy
@hop-daddy
one month ago
1,065 posts

@zacharias :


Thanks for sharing all of this personal info. Quick personal note to share as it is similar in some ways to what you are going through. I had posted before that back in summer of 2018 all hell broke loose at my home. We had entity sightings for years before that. But they mostly just made some noises, made occasional appearances, and left us alone. But then something changed and some bad ones got in and kept going after my daughter who is a psychic empath. It was a very messy process but after 4-5 months of research and effort on my part that included saging and getting outside help, we beat back the entities and had some peace for a while.


But since that time I have noticed that on many occasions, many of my family members are on edge and fighting with one another over trivial things. There's a lot of resentment and anger at each other out of no where. I've felt this first hand where I'm triggered by something and often have a very short fuse with all sorts of anger that comes out of nowhere. And we've had some health issues that seemed unusual as well. Although all of what has been going on this past year has been stressful for all 4 of us, it is most stressful and disarming for me. And I think that's their goal. As the Dad, husband, and lead empath, I stand in the way of what they want to do. And by weakening me, they start to gain the upper hand. I also saw this happen in summer of 2018 when I was fighting them directly.


So long story short, it sounds like your wife had a very tough upbringing, and continues to have difficult family relations. In fact, she probably doesn't even know how to exist in a normal family. It sounds as if your entities are using your wife and daughter to cause chaos and come after you (and weaken you). It's probably hard to understand how much of your wife's behaviors are her own, and how much of that is being manipulated by them. But if she's a narc, or emotionally damaged person, she's the easiest one for them to mess with and control. Keep all of this in mind before you throw in the towel on your marriage.


Interesting that when you get your wife away from that house, she is an improved person and much easier to be around. Although entities can very easily attach or follow any of you, I have found the same. And that is that when we leave the home for a visit elsewhere, we generally all feel better, and get along better. That leads me to believe in my case that these negs have covered our homes in dark energy in addition to them directly agitating us there. I have to wonder if that's the same for you? And whether you and your wife plus maybe the daughter could use a weekend trip away to see if you can unwind from all of that, be happy, and perhaps repair things? If that helps, then you know the problem lies in that house & general home area. And  then you will know that you'll need to take things a little further with "cleaning house" and protecting all of you from any darkness there.

Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
4 weeks ago
197 posts

Hop, I remember that happening. When both our daughters were having these similar issues at the same time. I hope your daughter is doing better and learning how to cope. I'm sure she is a strong girl. Probably stronger than us. They are our weakness. I had a hard time staying positive through out that ordeal. By going after our family these things think they can break down our defenses. So if anything you're coming out of this a stronger man and a better leader for having gone through it. 

We need to keep a check on our emotions. Be aware that their power is limited to what we give them. The attack tell us that they see us as a threat. This is actually a good thing. It means we are doing something right. Your daughter is lucky to have you to protect her though this. Don't expect the battle to end. It's just our job. These girls are more important that we are.

Yeah, I think it's time to clean house. 

michelle
@michelle
4 weeks ago
254 posts
@zacharias
You mentioned your wife's grandfather being a nazi. I would wonder on how entreched he was in the party. Did he actually live in Germany during their reign? If so, was he a soldier/officer, or was he politically involved?

While not all Germans were aware of the occult underpinnings of the Nazi Party or involved with that aspect of it, they were known for their mind control techniques and brought much of that here to the US thru Operation Paperclip. Much of the MKULTRA operations owe their inception to paperclip....where the US brought many here after the war.

Could her grandfather have been one of these men? Just asking, because they are known to experiment on their own families.

FYI two secret societies behind Nazism. You can explore the many links within the following pages.

Thule Society:
https://tinyurl.com/us6escw

Vril Society:
https://tinyurl.com/vg5z2fv


--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.
Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
4 weeks ago
197 posts

It's a family secret. One of many. Her mother won't talk about it. My daughter wants to know the truth about it. She also wants to be an investigator. This a great opportunity to show her how we find these things out. When we do I'll let you know what we find.

I remember a satanic group in St. Louis called Golden Dawn. This was back in 1985. I learned about them through a friend that was being recruited. I talked him out of joining. It's interesting to know where that group originated.

michelle
@michelle
4 weeks ago
254 posts
@zacharias

Giving you something to read. I think you will find some or all of what you need regarding this point in life you face.

We all gain 'Liberation' through the situations that our individual lives present to us. You have learned that there are many forces within the Matrix System, which attempt to hold us down. This knowledge can induce in us a fearful reaction but I believe that you have faced this with grace and poise.

The steps you now face are of a deeply personal nature, and perhaps this is the hardest test, on your quest for 'the holy grail.'

This page I'll ask you to read starts out on the flaws of many of the modern or new age teachings, which do contain some truths but are lined with pitfalls. I'm not sure if you have ever considered any of these teachings, and if not, it won't matter. I also know you are faith based in Christianity and I do not think that anything you'll read will conflict with where you're at.

Push thru the reading because, by the time you get to the 2nd part of the reading, it will become evident why I'm giving this to you. Here you will begin to read of the knowledge set forth in the 3 books of, "Gnosis," by Boris Mouravieff....remember, I gave that link to you months ago?

Godspeed on your journey,
Michelle 💜

READ:

https://tinyurl.com/tobomy7


--

I was abandoned by wolves and raised by my parents.
Zacharias
Zacharias
@zacharias
4 weeks ago
197 posts

When you gave me the link for Gnosis months ago I had started reading it and was distracted by everything going on. I didn't get back to it. In order to get through it I'll have to focus on it. I thank you for giving me all this information, but the overwhelming amount of it is daunting. It's going to take time to absorb it all. I'm only human. 

The most important thing I got out of quest for 'the holy grail' was a deeper understanding of why we need to love our enemies and what it means to turn the other cheek. This is golden! We are to love what they do for us. They give us this negative energy in hope that we give it back. I didn't know what to do with that energy before. Now I realize that if we transmute that energy we can use it to help others, the grateful. I'm going to practice this for a while and see what happens. Thank you all for your help. 

 

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