Can you help me to understand my failed relationship

ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

Hi, this is my first post here.

I was in a short relationship with one woman 6 months ago. I am still very much in agony and confusion. I can not decide if

it was me who was abusive or her. I know I said some things I regret now because they were hurtful. I have no idea if I was projecting my own issues on her of if I had good reason to be worried. And this drives me crazy. Sometimes I feel that I am a narcissist. Sometimes I think she is the narcissist. The worst part is that I do not know what is what. It would be a relief to know if I was the abuser. Or if I will know that she is. All I want is truth, but I just can not find it. I feel drained, neglected, misunderstood, invisible, used and unimportant. I have been talking about this with my therapist. Actually, with two different therapists. One of them told me she is like a book-case example of narcissism. The therapist I am working with said to me that she might be sociopath. What I am just trying to paint her black? And this is the reason why I am writing about this here. Because I believe that if I am really lying to myself and others, you, as intuitive people, can easily spot that. Please understand that this is just my perspective. And I want you to be honest with me. I want to know how you see my situation.

So, we met online. At first she was pursuing me heavily. I started really liking her very fast and I told her that. We talked in whatsapp for 2 months before I went to visit her country. She was very open with me. She told me she is afraid I will disappear. In our second date she told me I am "perfect". This is nonsense. She did not know me, and nobody is perfect. At this moment I took this as a compliment. I spent there two weeks. Everything was okay, altough I was not sure if she the right one for me. I was listening her concerns, but did not reveal too much about myself. I open up slowly. Actually I was a bit bored at times, and did some fault finding. I am not talking about extreme devaluation or anything like that, but I was thinking that maybe there is somebody more compatible for me. Still, I liked her. I knew that she was still in the dating site where we met, because she told me that she keeps reading messages she get. I did not think it is a big deal, we were just beginning our relationship. I already noticed that she was cold and negative person. She had no real friends. The ones she had she did not really like or enjoyed their company. It was strange that she was working as a nurse in hospital that treats children. It looked like she does not really like people.

The problems started when I returned to my country. I had a feeling that she is distancing herself from me. I can not explain, something was just off. We did not talk like before, she became more busy in her work. I comforted her about her behavior. I did it in a dramatic and blaming way, I have to admit that. I simply started panicking, because I have seen this push-pull pattern before in my life. The whole marriage of my parents were like that. Maybe it was all my projection? Maybe not? At first she told me she is sorry. She said she has been busy at work and feeling blue lately. She mentioned about her "crazy stuff". She asked me if we can talk about this later in skype. When we talked, she was like different woman. She was annoyed. I do not even remember the full details of our conversation. She made it very clear that I should have not bring this topic up because I do not know what is going on. After our conversation I was confused. Why it was me who was apologizing? Why did I feel incredible sad, angry and manipulated? 

In the next day we talked again. I told her that I want to take distance. I thought it will make her happy, because for me it looked like she wants to pull away. Now she was crying. I did not understand what is going on. I tried to talk about my concerns. She told me I am complaining and negative. It looked like how I feel does not matter at all. My concerns are completely unimportant. Even talking about them was like forbidden. She did not really take any responsibility of her behavior. Everything was my fault. I believed it. I sent her an email where I said that I was probably afraid of nothing. I also told her that I love her. Everything was okay, for now. We were planning my return to her country. A week after those fights she just announced me that she will have to work double shift all that time when I was supposed to come to visit her. I told her that I am not coming, I go somewhere else. I did not believe her. I told her that I can maybe come to visit her when she is less busy. She blaming me for wanting to go somewhere warm only (she knew I do not like winter). She played the victim by saying that she was silly because she thought I want to see her. Now I got angry because I found this very manipulative. I called her out, but she said she is just saying how she feels. In the next day I tried to propose a compromise. I was asking her if she can talk with her boss. I was ready to delay my trip for 1,5 months and come to see her later when she is less busy. All I got was an angry response: "Do you think I did not already try that? I was silly because I thought you want to see me". 

I broke up with her very soon after that. She did not really mind. She did not know any signs that our relationship ment anything to her. 

I have made a list of some things she said/ I found about her. The first is the most disturbing to me:

- Messenger name: sadistic.innocense (she actually changed that soon after our breakup)

- In our second date she told me I am "perfect".

- She was very obsessive about her weight

- She told me almost instantly that she is afraid that I will disappear

- She asked me if I can handle her "mood swings"

- She told me she is spoiled, negative and complaining and unforgiving

- When she told about her ex, she never took any responsibility of her part in their breakup

- She said that she has been thinking about getting pregnant without telling the guy anything (Yeah, and she said I am a person who only cares about himself )

- She was thinking about getting silicon breasts

- She told me she would like to put needles in my arms (she is a nurse, and I have very visible veins in my arms)

- She told she has some "crazy stuff"

- She told that men run away from her

What does your intuition says? Am I painting her black or did I have good reason to be conserned?

Thank you.


updated by @manwhoislost: 09/05/18 12:40:34PM
crystalsage
crystalsage
@crystalsage
3 months ago
197 posts
I have been in a similar situation.

First I am curious if you identify as an empath?

The reason I ask that is because it sounds like you where picking up a lot of her energy.

I've learned to be careful who I associate with. I have a strong tendency to pick others energy and if I don't recognize it as another's than it gets internalized. Once I internalize that energy it changes how I react to things, it also clouds my so I cannot think. Instead I become disconnected from myself.

One way I get a clear view is by asking myself the reasons I am feeling a certain way. If I find that there is no logical path to what I am feeling, then it is the internalized energy I have picked up.

Some ways I have found to keep from internalizing other are as follows.

I build boundaries with people in my life. It keeps me grounded and gives me time and space to deal.

I use crystals and salt baths to cleanse my energy.

I also make sure I get good sleep.

A new addition to my personal health has been fasting. I am finding it to be the ultimate cleanse.It is still very new but I do recommend looking into it to see if it is for you.

I would also look into cord cutting. It has honestly never worked for me, but I know it works for many others.

It's good that you talk to therapist and have found ones you can trust.

It does sound like you had good reason to cut ties. She seems like she had deep issues that she needs to deal with. That does not mean you need to be the one who has to help her. Also that fact that you even ask the question says you are not a narcissist. Narcissism is not with whether it is right or wrong.

Good luck to you.
Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts

Hi....I can tell you a lot of things based on what I'm sensing from your story...but the only way you're going to figure it out is by learning who you are...doing a major clearing of your energy and learning about energy and how it works....I can tell you now though that you are NOT compatible with this girl...nor she with  you...both of you have growing up to do....learn about yourself before you do anything else it's the only way you'll know what went wrong with your so called 'relationship'...


updated by @womanwhowalks: 07/02/18 02:43:57PM
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

Hmm, I am not sure if I am "empath". Well, I work with ayahuasca and a shaman in Ecuador. I am not sure if I believe in "energy" or stuff like that, but I most definetly do not deny it´s existence. And usually when I get this "something is wrong" feeling, I am usually right. So I would say I am intuitive (INFP). I know that people come to talk to me when they have problems. These days I live isolated life because I am done with being a helper. I am a nurse in psychiatric hospital so I do my helping at my work.


updated by @manwhoislost: 07/03/18 03:48:34AM
Curious Child
Curious Child
@curious-child
3 months ago
79 posts

First I would like to start with a short introduction...

Narcissist, empath, HSP. These words are thrown right and left in world nowadays almost carelessly. And in most cases they don't even match the truth. Narcissists are worst kind of people there is and putting a "narc" seal on a person needs lots of evidences for that, not just a story. Don't forget that there is also emotionally damaged people, which often act in narcissistic ways, there is also people that are still deeply hurt and seek relief and peace to recover later, and lots and lots more. Dividing people on normal/narcissist is just very narrow way of seeing things. That is why it needs EXPERT to actually make diagnosis of someone else to have disorder or other illness, and these experts  work for months with patient until signing a verdict. People can call themselves narcissists as much as they want, but think 10 times before they call someone else a narc. Its a very serious accusation, furthermore that never should be told to actual narcissist, because it can sabotage that little chance for their recovery.

Now to actual topic. First of all. Welcome to our site! And also I am sorry if I will "sound" a bit robotic, but that's my way, Im not cold or against anything about you or that girl, just serious attitude to serious things in my opinion. I wont tell you about energy and such, because that was not something you requested help with, furthermore if you are not sure if you are empath. I will tell you my thoughts about your story, but only about what you wrote, because people are complicated beings in all aspects. Take my words not as truth, but as something to think about and consider if it is so or not, something to hopefully help you understand things better, because I don't know neither you or that girl, nor your backstories and what you both were trough in life.

First of all, like I said above -I think you both are not narcissistic, too unlikely. Narcissist would not even care to come here to seek help with this issue. I think both of you are just unaware of yourselves, like @womanwhowalks mentioned . And that is completely normal in most people lives period! What my intuition tells me is that you both just have unresolved issues from past which makes you both insecure in certain situations. And you also mentioned that yourself with "patterns from past".

From what you wrote I can give a bit dull insight. If its truth or not -you can decide. You do seem like a caring guy, because you let yourself to be manipulated. And that is normal if you are not aware of yourself as caring guy, it happens very often. Second -girls, especially HSP or emotionally damaged tend to be often emotionally manipulative until they become aware or balanced. And it seems like this could take place in your situation.

I think this is what happened to you both in my theory :

My intuition tells me that you both are a bit needy people, been trough that myself too, its not something terrible and is much able to change. The girl seemed intuitively and instinctively prepare a ground for her safe escape with you, because of possible bad past with people that she got attached herself to. Its not something that she has done out of evil inside, more like as naturally formed tactic to escape if things get hurtful for her again, to flee without carry much guilt with her.

First she praised you to make herself feel easier, that chances that you will stay a bit longer increase. Then she started to collect "blame bank" for safe escape. Words like "I am afraid that you will disappear" or "I hope you can handle my mood swings" are basically questions that put pressure on you, to answer "I wont" or something encouraging for her mood swing answer. On one hand -she is honest with you -on other its something that insecure people use to keep people with them or have an excuse for later...Or manipulate not to take responsibilities for bad things. So that can leave person in situation "I cant leave, because I will look bad and ugly, feel bad, like a traitor", yet also there is nothing for you to assure her stay which makes you worried.

About you. Well. That is harder, because I also noticed, that you wrote much more about her here, but not much about yourself. So is this about her? Or is this truly about both of you?

But for now I can tell. You are not a narcissist. About her -I doubt that she is too. More like she is swinging between her fears and what she wishes. In other words -wants something, but is afraid to make a step, when you make a step towards her wishes -she flees, afraid to make it more serious, because it can hurt her more, disappoint more, most likely disappoint in herself. Maybe her past patterns make her do that, yet they come subconsciously and she cant explain even for herself why?

I think most probably that girl is either deeply wounded or emotionally damaged, but this is not verdict. Difference between narcissist and emotionally damaged person is...Narcissist abandons and betrays you without feeling bad or any kind of regret...Emotionally damaged people abandon you, because of fear to be hurt more than they already are, and that pain they cant handle or because they fear to be ashamed of themselves. Narcissist run, because they don't see flaws in themselves at all...The other, because they feel too flawed, they run from guilt, for them taking responsibility is feeling guilty, which they fear a lot. And emotionally damaged people -they do feel guilty when they do bad things. Narcissist does not suffer because of that, but the other one does, yet they don't want to suffer and want to be happy too. It makes them to behave in "fleeing, but don't want to let go" manner, taking step towards you, but then taking distance afterwards.

Her working as nurse to children I see as completely normal, nothing unusual from my perspective on all of this.

To actually understand what is going on you need knowledge about situation. First gather what you know about both of you from past to understand your behavior in present, then break your relationship into events, then ask why these events happened if you cant just let them be and they bother you. Seek additional knowledge from outside sources if you don't understand something.

Read about disorders like "Narcissistic, borderline, bipolar". About Toxic people and energy vampires. And also about emotionally damaged people. And of course learn about HSP and empaths. All these people can act in narcissistic manner from time to time or be a narcissist covering behind an innocent mask.

I can help you by giving some thoughts in private if you want, because once again as I mentioned above -people are complicated and I have truly lots to say about all of this, but don't want my post to be 1.5 meters long. And also I dealt with this kind of girl before. Spend over half year seeking answers why it happened so to us. And found out to have my peace.

P.S. Don't let negativity cloud your judgment. <3


updated by @curious-child: 07/03/18 06:35:53AM
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

Thank you for your very detailed answers. I really appreciate the effort and thought you have put on your answers. Well, the question about narcissism/sociopathy was raised by my therapist who is expert in abusive behavior. I went to talk with her because I thought its me who is abuser. I also contacted HG Tudor, a well known narcissist/psychopath who helps to weaponize empaths against people of his kind. I got his answer a moment ago. I highly recommend his work to all sensitive people, because we are the main targets. I also sent him copies of the emails I shared with her. I did this with my therapist as well. Anyways, HG´s analysis was pretty straightforward: She is a narcissist. His advice? Go away from this woman and stay away, no matter what. He also adviced me to study narcissism very well and learn how to control my emotional thinking so I become less appealing to people of "his kind". 

But, For some reason I think Curious Child and the rest of you are on to something as well. And by the way, I do not think all the narcissists are evil per se (excepts malignants and sociopaths). They are highly sensitive people with EXTEREMLY dysfunctional coping strategies. They are also prisoners of their own inner torture, so I feel very sorry for them. Still, they are not people I want to have anything to do with. Sometimes you just have to turn your emotions completely off to save yourself. This is difficult, but it is the only way to deal with abusive people in my opinion. They won´t change, and if you think you can heal them with your love, think again. In my opinion this way of thinking is nothing but narcissist delusion of your own omnipotence as a healer (I used to share this delusion too). I used to be "the white knight" who wants to save people from themselves. Not anymore. Other people pain is none of my business. If they sincerely ask my help and support and if they are really willing to grow, I will be there for them. 


updated by @manwhoislost: 07/03/18 09:52:00AM
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

I also wanted to share my story with you because you people are like candles in this dark world. I do not want you to lose that light if you meet emotional vampires. 

Curious Child
Curious Child
@curious-child
3 months ago
79 posts

Narcissist are not evil, furthermore such thing as evil don't exist in my opinion...Its something people invented. Its just their way to cope as you said and I agree. Does not mean that it should be tolerated, but something that can allow people to treat narcissist not like devil walking on earth and just spit in their faces.

You can turn emotions off or just remind yourself that narcissists are a job for experts out there, those experts who also get well paid for all the patience by the way, not your thing to repair.

I still don't agree people to put narcissist brand on a person who they have not met personally in life, no matter therapist or narcissist in past who puts it. Maybe it is narcissist, maybe its a person with borderline personality disorder, which is completely different thing, yet can be similar in behavior. Narcissists are absolute tip of negative end of spectrum.

Still if that person makes you feel bad -I agree. Its better to leave that person. Sometimes its hard and you have urge to return, to make it right this time, but over time it passes and becomes easier. Also Toxicity is very selective thing in people.

I agree with that Tutor about training your emotional thinking. This is something I started myself many months back, it does make life easier for sensitive souls. Its something very necessary for balance. As well as taking people that don't serve you any good away. Keep your feelings in line with logic. There is still that "I have to help" voice every time in me, but I mostly punch it back with my mind.

Also. Urge to heal narcissist is often mistaken for love for sensitives.

So did you find what you were searching for here or something else is on your mind?


updated by @curious-child: 07/03/18 11:39:46AM
Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts

ManWhoIsLost:

Hmm, I am not sure if I am "empath". Well, I work with ayahuasca and a shaman in Ecuador. I am not sure if I believe in "energy" or stuff like that, but I most definetly do not deny it´s existence. And usually when I get this "something is wrong" feeling, I am usually right. So I would say I am intuitive (INFP). I know that people come to talk to me when they have problems. These days I live isolated life because I am done with being a helper. I am a nurse in psychiatric hospital so I do my helping at my work.

Well...your profession explains a lot of what I'm picking up from you....I AM an empath...you are NOT a narcessist altho a lot of what you wrote did carry that kind of energy....the woman who you were seeing may also be influenced by narcissistic energies...but is not necessarily a narcissist....for me a narcissist is about the kind of energy that one emits ...and you don'ttotally  present that kind of energy to me...but you DO emit it...as do a lot of people in what they say...but a true narcissist is one who's energy is completely backwards....kind of like a black hole that sucks out the all the badness in a person...brings it to the surface and is quite overpowering....for me as an empath that's how a narcessitic energy presents itself....it has nothing to do with WHAT or HOW a narcissist speaks it's the energy they present...I don't like the energy....and a true narcissist can't help how they are...its how they are...I go by the energy alone...not by gossip or what anyone says....


updated by @womanwhowalks: 07/03/18 12:02:20PM
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

Curious Child, I am not sure. For some reason I am drawn to shamanism and especially ayahuasca and other plants the shamans use in South America. It is very difficult path, but every time I try to quit extreme suffering happens. This relationship is a fine example, and after we broke up I went to South America to seek guidance from the plants. I have had some experiences I do not fully understand. An example: In Jan 2017 I went to peruvian jungle to study the plants. In one ceremony I got information that my father does not have a lot of time left. First, I thought it was just my imagination. But when I returned back to my country, my father died. This is really strange. It is hard to believe this is a coincidence. Of course I do not talk about this stuff with anyone, people would think I have lost my mind. Sometimes the plants make me sing. And you can not actually control it. It feels like the plants are singing through you. I can not really explain it. 

The reason why I do not really enjoy ayahuasca is that it brings you face to face with your own mortality. What I mean is that you actually "die" and lose control completely. The shamans call this "little death".  On the other hand, I feel lost if I do not study the plants or attend the ceremonies. The shamans I have been working with have encouraged me to continue my studies. And I did want to become shamanic healer in my past. At this point I do not believe I have it in my blood. Still, it feels like without the plants I am completely lost in this world. This is kind of conflict I live in. I feel really lost actually. And scared. 

EDIT: No matter what was the deal with this past encounter with this woman, working on myself is the best idea at this point. And by the way, I am not saying I was innocent victim in this relationship. There is always two people involved. "Water seeks its own level". 


updated by @manwhoislost: 07/03/18 12:58:17PM
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

I just want to be like everybody else. I want to enjoy social events, but I just can not. I want to have family of my own, but I feel that I am incapable of making it happen. I want genuine connection to other people. But I feel like I am stuck in my own head. Well, I have ADD so maybe it explains a lot.

ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

I also have very strange dreams sometimes. In 2010 one friend of mine killed himself. Couple of months after his death, I had a dream about him. I told him that it is nice to see him again. He was smiling and looked very happy. He told me that he came to help me. He gave me a paint of red house. It looked like it was painted by a child. He told me we should sing something. In the end of that dream there was golden key lock in the sky. That´s when I woke up. And I felt like I had actually met him in my dream.

Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts
One thing that everyone goes through empath or not is indecision...
And every one of us has to learn how to deal with that..giving yourself permission to take a step back regardless of the advice and pressure of others is your right as an individual to do so in order to make your decisions in life...who knows...maybe it's not you time to be a shaman...maybe it IS your time to do something else until it IS time....your path is not set...no ones is
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

Karen2, I think you are right. Most likely I will return to Ecuador in the next winter and stay in the jungle for couple of weeks or months. I really like that kitsua healer I was visiting last time. There is just something in this old man. And he most definetly knows what he is doing.

ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

One more thing: If anybody of you know any good guided meditations for letting go of negativity in youtube, I will be interested. You can send a link to me via email. 

crystalsage
crystalsage
@crystalsage
3 months ago
197 posts
You are a truly magnificent being.

While I understand the desire to want to be "normal," I have never found greater peace than in acceptance of my differences.

The path you chose, is exactly that, your choice.

But I honestly think the answers you came looking for all within you.

As you said you are a highly sensitive person so it makes sense that you pick up on others. While you do not identify as an empath you seem to possess many of the traits but at the same time so much more!

I think it is amazing, and am grateful to you for sharing.

From my own experience I would say that was your friend. And I agree with how you feel about narcissism. After all nothing in this world is truly black or white. It simply is.

Biggest peice of advice I would give...Trust yourself. Trust what experience and feel.
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

Thank you for your kind words crystalsage. Everything will be all right.

ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

Hi spiritualskies

You are right, there is neediness in me. Do not worry, your response was not offensive at all. As I told you, it was my therapist who said that this person sounds like a sociopath/narcissist/borderline. Later I sent to one different therapist the list that I have posted here (because I can guarantee that those things are 100% true and not colored by my own projection/thinking)  and the emails I shared with this girl. I just wanted to have another opinion to be sure His opinion? book-case example of narcissism. Then I contacted HG Tudor, and his analysis was the same. But you are right, this is just my side of the story. Her version would be very different. The truth is still, that my story is the only thing I have, and I have to act accordingly. And by the way, 2 months ago I tried to contact that woman so we could talk about things and share the responsibility of the demise of our relationship. Her response was virulent. I was "a person who only think about himself". And nothing was her fault, of course. Even hinting that she might be accountable of something made her angry. She asked me to never contact her again. I was not that suprised, this is how things always went. Stonewalling, blame shifting, and playing the victim were her favorite tools for avoiding accountability. For me this is the clearest sign of a toxic person. 

Of course I did something wrong too. I said some hurtful things to her when we broke up (and I apologized when I realized that what I said was hurtful). I sometimes take my caretaker role too far and when it happens I become a little controlling, disrespectful and dishonest. I apologized that too, altough my apology sounded little egoistic. On the other hand I do not want to blame myself of that too harshly because I was completely lost and I did not know what is what when I wrote this apology. Still, I understand that it probably did more harm than good.

You can not diagnose other people if you have not met them. It is true. Still, when there is already 2 therapist and HG giving me almost the same analysis, I think I have to take that as my personal truth. I left the relationship because it was my own intuition telling me that this situation is becoming very dangerous to my emotional health(and that she is lying to me) and I have to minimize the damage. This is what I asked HG Tudor as well. Am I just being paranoid? Well, he said that no I am not, and he has seen this pattern many, many times before. All right, you might ask why it is important to me to know if she is narc? I became very lonely and unhappy in the relationship, so isn´t that good enough reason to leave? It is important, because if she ever tries to hoover me, I have to be mentally prepared. I know my weaknesses, and I will sucked back in if I am not aware what I am dealing with. If I am wrong and she is not a narc, fine. It is still much safer for me to assume that she is to avoid any contact and harm by her. 

At this point I have zero compassion to this woman. There will be time of forgiveness and compassion, but not just yet. Much later, when I am completely detached and moved on. Compassion will only keep that trauma bond alive, and I do not want that to happen. When that bond does not exist anymore, it is safe to forgive and have compassion.

So, this is my side of the story.  

ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

Hi Hermes,

Great post. I probably have to read it couple more times before commenting futher.

ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts
Quote:  You can only love someone to the extent that you love yourself. 

This is common wisdom, but I disagree. New born babies do not love themselves or anybody else. They learn to love if they are lucky enough to have loving parents. So the love comes from outside first, and then they learn to see themselves as lovable beings. So, I would say the truth might be completely opposite: You can only love yourself in extent that you have been loved by others (caregivers, spouses etc). 

I am not one of those lucky babies. My parents were alcoholics, and my father was extremely abusive mentally and physically, at least according to my mother. Well, he is dead now. 

ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

I do not believe that self-reliance stuff many self help books promote. We are dependent of other people. This dependency is based on our biological wiring, because making bonds with other people helped us survive as a specie. I used to believe that if I become completely self-reliant and "not needy" I would become like immortal and happy. It was nothing but another fantasy of my omnipotence. 

EDIT: I changed my nickname :D


updated by @manwhoislost: 07/05/18 11:05:32AM
crystalsage
crystalsage
@crystalsage
3 months ago
197 posts
ManWhoWasFound:
Quote:  You can only love someone to the extent that you love yourself. 

This is common wisdom, but I disagree. New born babies do not love themselves or anybody else. They learn to love if they are lucky enough to have loving parents. So the love comes from outside first, and then they learn to see themselves as lovable beings. So, I would say the truth might be completely opposite: You can only love yourself in extent that you have been loved by others (caregivers, spouses etc). 

I am not one of those lucky babies. My parents were alcoholics, and my father was extremely abusive mentally and physically, at least according to my mother. Well, he is dead now. 



I grew up with a similar lack of love. On some levels I agree with both of you on others I disagree with both of you. I believe that behavior for the most part is learned through experience and our interpretation of the experience. Yes there are experiences that can make expressing emotions difficult.

But I we believe we can teach ourselves to love in ways we where never truly exposed to as children. I feel as though I have done that for myself. Relationships are still hard but they get easier as time goes on. In a lot of ways I think I am lucky to have grown up in a bad situation. I came into adulthood with no preconceived notion of what it meant to be happy, loved, and for life to be good. I got to paint my own picture. Now I look at myself compared to others and I feel like I love myself so much more wholly than others do. I wouldn't trade this love for anything. And while I truly would love to share this love with someone not at the cost of taking love from myself.

Long story short I do not believe it matters how others love you. I believe we can grow within ourselves the kind of love we want. We just have to be willing trust ourselves.
Curious Child
Curious Child
@curious-child
3 months ago
79 posts

" You can only love yourself in extent that you have been loved by others, but you can only love someone to the extent that you love yourself "

P.S. Words like only, all, everyone, everybody, all the time, every time and such...Bad words, bad bad bad... :E


updated by @curious-child: 07/05/18 11:55:14AM
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts
Quote: Not to nag, but how long are you going limit your experience of life on the images and ideologies that people enforce on you. 

No worries, I do not think you are nagging.


Quote: I (para) quote Rumi: "You do not need to seek love, you merely have to find and tear down the barriers that prevent you from seeing love."
With all due respect, to say that love is something learnt from others means that you know nothing of love, and yet you feel that you do?

It is possible that I know nothing about love. For me what I said about the babies and how they learn to love is the strongest argument against common belief that you have to love yourself before you can love somebody else. Following that logic, the babies would never learn to love. However, one could say that bonding and love are not the same thing and that love is something divine that just exist and it is our ego and false self that prevents us on connecting to it. On the other hand, we can clearly see that people who growed up in extermely dysfunctional and unloving families find it extremely difficult to learn how to love themselves or receive love from others (because they learned that from their parents in the first place). Some people are not affected as heavily as some others, so I guess your genetic makeup also plays a role here.


Quote: Do you or are you merely working with images other people have handed to you? I think that deserves some thought.

By quoting Rumi you are offering me his idea of love, right? Still, it is just another image handed to me by somebody else.

crystalsage
crystalsage
@crystalsage
3 months ago
197 posts
@hermes
You angry and forceful. I would think a so called "empath in the truest form" would understand that there is no right answer.

Everything is simply an opinion.

Maybe it is not your place to go around pushing buttons.

If everyone's journey is their own, how can you judge who is advanced and who is not?

Mr Hermes.
Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts
I think that's what we've all managed to say in different ways...lol...Hermes is just being direct and to the point...I get that way too sometime...lol
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts
Quote: Now if you don't mind, I would like to entertain people who are more advanced in their journey, and facing more difficult challenges.

I do not mind. I appreciate your effort in this conversation altough I do not necessarily agree with you on everything.

Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts
So...manwhoislost...what exactly ARE you looking for at this time?...you joined an empath group...empaths sense energy...you say you dont believe in energy...the term 'believe' for me is simply a doubt btw...you say you want to become a shaman but shaman IS about energy...so...why did you join this group?
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

Karen2,

This is very fair question. I joined here because I like to take a look on different perspectives. I know that your thinking is in many ways different than many other people. I do not necessarily agree with everything you say, but I am not saying you are wrong either. I am open to your ideas, and I am actually booking a session for a local reiki healer in my town. First time in my life. 

EDIT: If you think that I do not belong here because I do not agree with you on everything, then maybe you are right. This is not my place.


updated by @manwhoislost: 07/06/18 12:25:47PM
Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts
Lol...actually my way of thinking is a LOT like other peoples....I just express it differently...lol
Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts

No..that's not what I mean at all...I'm not wanting you to go...and why would you do so?...why would you give up simply because you think I want you to? Whenever someone want me to give up THATS when I dig in my heals and do the opposite of giving up....and MY purpose is to tell people NOT to give up....you're here for a reason....I'm trying to get you to THINK about that reason that's all...


updated by @womanwhowalks: 07/06/18 12:40:00PM
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

Well, you are right I guess. The thing is that I do not like to be rejected or seen as inferior (as hermes stated in passive-aggressive way) just because I disagree with something. I just do not see people like that safe. I do not know if the majority of this community thinks same way. If I sense that´s the case, of course I leave. For the sake of my own emotional well being. 

Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts
You are NOT inferior...you are not at the same level as most of us are in our abilities and understandings...we came here to learn about our abilities and to find a place where we are accepted because we are the same ...if that makes sense...and sometimes people forget that...so...do some reading and THINK...find what resonates with you....in my mind LIFE is all about energy....I feel it...see it... hear it and sense it all around....in everthing...you are not at that point...almost but not quite...in a way though you saying you dont agree with anything I say or what anyone says is kinda like telling us not to say anything to you...so your shutting us off...and we know it...so...again....this is for you to think about....why are you here?..and dont run away....that's cowardly...
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts
Quote: .in a way though you saying you dont agree with anything I say 

I did not say that, and this is not what I think. 


Quote: .why are you here?..and dont run away....that's cowardly...

As I told you before, I came here because you have pretty unusual perpective of things that is difficult to find elsewhere. It does not mean that I agree with everything you say.


Quote: .you are not at the same level as most of us are in our abilities and understandings...

The way how I see it is that you have interesting perspectives. I do not think you are in different level or anything like that. If the truth is that you are, it will reveal itself to me, right?  I think you see things differently, and I was hoping that I would probably get new perspectives. Because at this point, after meeting that woman, I do not know what to believe anymore. That´s all.  

crystalsage
crystalsage
@crystalsage
3 months ago
197 posts
@womanwhowalks
Actually based on the description of some of his experiences I would say @manwhoislost is on the same level.

I can recall a few of your post that similar to his original question.

It is not for you to say who is right for this group or any other.

There is a difference between being direct and just down right sarcastic.

There is no right way to approach empathy or any other topic for that matter.

Someone having a different point of view is no reason to attack. In fact becoming aggressive after a different point of view is expressed is a sign of limited understanding.

It is okay to be strong in ones believing. It is also okay to doubt, it is only human.

It is okay to have a firm sense of direction just as much as it is to be lost.

It is the foolish and insecure person who cannot be honest about uncertainty. Particularly when we we live in a world that is uncertain.

To be able to admit being lost, is to state that one us truly ready to seek a greater truth for self. There nothing wrong with that.

There are plenty of people on this site that have vastly different views and that is the best part of this place.
Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts
Plus you got a thing with plants...a connection to plants...that might be the place to start...plants....that's about energy too....
Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts

I'm not running him off...that's all good about differences...again I'm going on the energy supplied that comes along with the words he's written and it doesn't all match up...therefore there's something else going on and I'm uneasy....


updated by @womanwhowalks: 07/06/18 01:38:08PM
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts
Quote: Plus you got a thing with plants...a connection to plants...that might be the place to start...plants....that's about energy too....

It is possible. It certainly feels that way when you attend in the ceremonies. There are other possible explanations to that feeling as well. Somebody with very materialistic worldview would see it differently. I am not sure what to believe at this point. 

ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts
Quote: have you benefitted in any way? Is the real question.

Yes, of course. As I told you, I want to go that reiki healer I was talking about before to see if it really helps. I would not have had that idea without this conversation. Antidepressants do not work (before I got a lot of help from them) so I do not think this is normal depression I am going through right now. This might be something else, and I will be very curious to hear what she has to say to me. 

Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts
spiritualskies:
I highlighted this in the beginning that all empaths will pick different energies, each have their own unique understanding, skills and perspectives and I feel like it's become a feeding frenzy for this person who asked for some advice, I think we all have in out own I dividual constructive ways. @manwhoislost have you benefitted in any way? Is the real question.

I think we leave aside that some have found something off and some offered words of hope and encouragement.

I don't want to join the bitch wagon that's begun here and this is not targeted at anyone specific. I began at a point where I probably came across In some similar ways and constructively speaking, if you are an empath @manwhoislost don't be afraid to defend but also be honest, if it's too personal to be open, speak to someone privately that you feel inclined to. Delete this thread if it no longer serves you purpose and or request to stop having anyone respond.

If anything you feel you benefitted from and shamanism is what you wish to develop into, then contemplate on that and ask for support in that spectrum, learn about what it is and why it's important to you.

But most importantly don't be afraid to express you views, or to run away if your feeling attacked but take it not as intimidation that some empaths are highly advanced and if they sense something has not right in they're gut they will address it, and they will use the skills they have developed and are 2nd nature to them.

I hope this doesn't feel like another attack to you or to anyone else. But some are right in what they say, find yourself, k own how to ask your questions and share what is relevant, hiding or or Shari g select I formation may only give the wrong impression even if you do speak the truth. Take caution and help is always around..

Peace to you all, let's be more grown up about this please
That's what I'm saying...the 'bitch wagon' ( i like that description...lol)..isnt NORMAL...
Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts
There's an energy that comes and goes...gets lighter or goes away...then comes back strong...on THIS tread at the moment...it's centered round my heart chakra at the moment...it happens everytime I come back to this thread....and we're all agitated....pretty much over nothing....
ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
3 months ago
23 posts

Somebody mentioned energy vampires at some point in this thread. After reading a book about them, I have opened to the possibility that people like this can actually exist. So at this moment I am trying to schedule appointment with the reiki healer so I can go. It is already 0:30pm when I write this so let´s see how long I have to wait. There is a direct link between my depression and this relationship. 

Well, I have nothing to add to my original question so I guess it is time to thank everyone for your perspectives. 


updated by @manwhoislost: 07/06/18 02:39:11PM
Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts
I think I'm understanding his energy quite well...
Karen2
Karen2
@womanwhowalks
3 months ago
965 posts

crystalsage "] @womanwhowalks Actually based on the description of some of his experiences I would say @manwhoislost is on the same level. I can recall a few of your post that similar to his original question. It is not for you to say who is right for this group or any other. There is a difference between being direct and just down right sarcastic. There is no right way to approach empathy or any other topic for that matter. Someone having a different point of view is no reason to attack. In fact becoming aggressive after a different point of view is expressed is a sign of limited understanding. It is okay to be strong in ones believing. It is also okay to doubt, it is only human. It is okay to have a firm sense of direction just as much as it is to be lost. It is the foolish and insecure person who cannot be honest about uncertainty. Particularly when we we live in a world that is uncertain. To be able to admit being lost, is to state that one us truly ready to seek a greater truth for self. There nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of people on this site that have vastly different views and that is the best part of this place.
Yup...and I had to get real with myself pretty darn quick if I was gonna understand what was going on with me....the question I asked him is EXACTLY the same question I asked myself...the choice was...do I learn or wallow?...guess which one I chose?..what did YOU choose?...we all go about it differently but it's the exact same thing for everyone....learn or wallow...and I'm not mad at you for reacting to what I said...my question is WHY did you react to what I said because I wasn't saying anything different than what I always say...I was not attacking him...why do you think I was?


updated by @womanwhowalks: 07/06/18 03:15:34PM
crystalsage
crystalsage
@crystalsage
3 months ago
197 posts
@womanwhowalks
The person who started this thread has respectfully asked us to end this.

With that being said, if you want to send me AXA private messages I am more than willing to respond. But not here. We can even start our own thread if that is better for you. I'll leave it up to you.

@manwhoislost. I wish you the best. I meant what I said earlier, after reading some of your post, particularly the one about the plants, I think whatever you are is truly amazing.
Hop Daddy
Hop Daddy
@hop-daddy
2 months ago
876 posts

@manwhoislost:

I'm a little late to the party here. This whole post thread seems to be very active based on the length. Anyway, I've been an active participant in this community for a few years. And I tend to get a decent energetic picture on people from their emails, texts, and from forum posts like this. And if you don't mind the additional input, I'd like to share a few things that I am picking up from you. My below comments are based on your original post as I have not yet read through the follow up comments from everyone else:

*Setting my energy analysis aside, your words are not those of a narc. You have communicated with thought and respect. Nothing in your post was "me,me,me" or showed any type of manipulation that a narc would post. Narc's can't help but make everything about themselves. Your post shows concern, empathy, and curiosity. And above all, you showed politeness, and class. A typical narc exchange would frankly be the opposite of what you posted.

*I think most likely you are an empath. And I am picking up on that what you feel may be narc feelings is the energy that you are picking up from your female friend. You also feel guilty about how you interacted with her. And that's an empath thing as narcs don't have regrets of how they mistreat people. You are basically doing what I call mirroring where you self-identify with the energy from your friend. The hardest thing for an empath to do, in my opinion, is to separate their own feelings from those feelings that they pick up from others. This gets especially muddied when love is involved because the power of love and attraction makes us blind to what is going on and instead floods us with a very strong high that blocks our common sense and senses.

*Everything you have described or quoted from your girlfriend shouts out "narc,narc,narc" to me. It sounds like she wants you to somehow fear and respect her as a sociopath. But my sense is that she is a narc who is just more open about how messed up she is. She's a troubled person who gets off on guys being intimidated by her. And as you probably know, narcs have a unique knack for finding and capturing/dominating empaths. It's no surprise to me that she found you and charmed you. That's what narcs do. They typically stay in an empath relationship long enough to absorb all of your energy and then they leave you abruptly.

Empaths seem to often fall under the spell of narcs all the time. I don't know if it's the Florence Nightingale effect, but many empaths walk into the narc trap like zombies while everyone else can see that it's a bad match.

I think in summary you are a good person with empathic abilities who frankly can do better then chase a woman who is so clearly your arch-enemy who will inflict great damage. So many of us have made the mistake that you made. But in a lot of cases it's an important introduction to the manipulative powers and heart break that can be caused by narcs. I'm sure you regret the relationship with her. But all in all, you learned a lot about narcs who hunt empaths for energy dominance.

ManWhoWasFound
ManWhoWasFound
@manwhoislost
2 months ago
23 posts

Thank you Hop Daddy. You make a lot of sense, and I have to agree with you. I have had a feeling that there is something in me that does not belong to me. Her projections, maybe. You probably call it energy. It does not matter because we are talking about the very same thing. 

It is interesting that you use the word "spell". Because this whole thing feels like some wicked black magic. She also reminds me of what the shamans talk about brujos or brujas, witches. Evil shamans who suck other people´s energy and who hunt curanderos (healers) in their ayahuasca journeys to blow virotes (darts) to their victims to cause harm, sickness, bad luck or even death. In healing ceremonies curanderos are searching the virotes from patients body and sucking them out. Usually they can be found in the shape of darts, spikes of trees, arrows or razor blades. It is interesting that Christian Northrup in his book "Dodging Energy Vampires" says that this kind of energy can be seen as swords in the patients body. He even mention about vomiting negative energy out. And this is exactly what ayahuasca is will to do. As a matter of fact, it is the most important part of ayahuasca ceremony for the patient. 

I am a sceptic, but to me it seems very unlikely that different people from completely different cultural backrounds would see this phenomenon in so similar way. 

Hop Daddy
Hop Daddy
@hop-daddy
2 months ago
876 posts

@manwhoislost:

It's pretty rare to run into people who practice the dark arts. That would be scary because those people bring in evil spirits and demons to this world. And empaths are targets for those type of entities. But more likely, she was just a narc who knew how to use her powers of persuasion and manipulation. When they know what they are doing, narc energy can be very intoxicating to empaths and be very hard to resist. Just like how many unrealized empaths have been using their powers to heal their whole life, narcs also learn how to use theirs. It's very subconscious to both sides. Typically when a narc consciously learns who to use their skills for bad intent, they make the jump to becoming a sociopath as they try to inflict harm. It's hard to say which category your ex falls into. But either way, she was not good for you. But it was a lesson to be learned that will make you stronger as you experience life as an empath (should you so choose).

Energy vampires are a very interesting topic. In my experience not all energy vampires are narcs. Quite a few people I meet in life are just very damaged souls who are desperate for the healing light that empaths provide. My mother-in-law is one example in my life where she is definitely not a narc, but drains my energy like no other. And when I do have to spend time with a narc, I typically feel drained in a sickness kind of way. Narcs make me feel nauseous and tired if I am around them for more than a few  minutes. But ironically, I make them feel really insecure and uncomfortable without even uttering a word. So it's a two-way energy battle that I experience with narcs. It;s actually kind of comical to a degree to experience because typically narcs are the alpha male or female in the room. And when I'm around they start feeling really insecure and go out of their way to impress me. I always notice this dazed, confused look in their eyes as they feel uncomfortable in their skin around me. 

I'm going to check out that book you cited. I have an aggressive energy grounding technique that I use when things get bad that incorporates convulsing my stomach as I push bad energy out. And it's the same stomach muscles that are used when vomiting. This is something that I've come up with on my own so it's intriguing to hear from you that a similar technique has been used by an ancient culture.

And lastly, I was the world's biggest skeptic on all of this stuff at the beginning. When I was awakening as an empath I kept allowing my skeptical mind to explain away what was happening to me. But eventually I gave in and opened myself up to the spiritual possibilities and like pieces of a jig-saw puzzle, things in my life started falling in to place on a spiritual level. Due to your skeptical and analytical mind, you really have to go through a process of scientific testing before you'll be able to buy in to all of this spiritual stuff. And that's okay. With me when I started running out of scientific reasons why things were happening, I then took baby steps toward believing in spiritual and paranormal things.  

Hop Daddy
Hop Daddy
@hop-daddy
2 months ago
876 posts

@hermes:

Thanks for the kind words. This post was very interesting to read and participate in. At first I just read ManWhoWasFound's post to try to zero in on what he was experiencing and needed help on. And then I took a look at all of the comments from others and saw that there was a melting pot of emotional responses from everyone. This is what makes this site so great. We all get to volunteer our feelings and responses and great discussions usually evolve. And we should always keep in mind that we are not only helping the post person with feedback. But since these posts get filed away, we are creating answers for others to find when they search the archives down the road. 

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