VENTING!

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Renee
@renee
last year
137 posts

Oh My Gawwddd!!! I wish i wish i was not able to feel the energy of others! I wish i was not able to pick up on those heavily loaded comments that come and make you want to retreat back into your own sacred space! I have so very few little groups that i will come out of my space to be in and today just feeling the judgement! I have no idea how to navigate this thing called life and people. If you speak up you are too loud. If you don't speak you are shutting everyone out. If you sit patiently and await your turn you are a wall flower and will be completely missed. If you interrupt you are just damn rude. If you dress down you get asked if "are you ok? You look terrible!" If you dress decent judgements are made as to who you are trying to impress. If you speak about it you are causing drama. If you vent to a confidante you are still causing an issue. If you don't speak to anyone you are repressing your feelings and should really open up more! I hate when people send loaded statements and expect that i cannot pick up the undercurrent, yet if you mention that undercurrent you are taking it too serious and it wasn't intended that way. If you don't mention that undercurrent you are allowing yourself to be walked all over. So many goddam rules!

I like to just close myself off from time to time and pretend as though i know nothing and life is bliss. 

Ignorance truly is bliss! I think i will just retreat back into a cone of silence! 


updated by @renee: 03/13/17 04:14:31AM
Rene''
@rene
last year
1,194 posts

Just breath and be just as rude as you need to be lol.    Just because we are Empaths does not mean we cant roar sometimes.   I roar a lot. Lol.   It gets to be tooo much trying to be who they expect us to be.   It gets hard to breath.   It's not like your a narcissist, trying to invade someone else's air.  This is your air!  Your ground.   Put your armor on and scream "I be damn".  Sorry.   I got caught up in the moment.   

What others think of us creates us if we let them.   Your not venting. It's called gaining control of Renee the Empath and what you will allow.  I see it as acceding.    Yes.  We love all but we have to love the real us.  The one with no makeup and hair in a ponytail.    Like it or not World!  That's who we are.  

Find your loving center and show it to the world.   I like your center..by the way.  

Renee
@renee
last year
137 posts

Oh you have no idea how happy your comment makes me @rene it really affirms so much of what has been swimming in my head all night and day! I agree with so so much of it! And that is me trying work out who I am in all of this. You know I wrote this and just felt a release, rang a friend who knows the other person in question who said "nope it's her insecurities not mine" and then received a few messages around how beautiful, graceful and stylish I am  which I had to laugh at hahah (the situation arose around how we dress and put ourselves out there) and I explained how I've just dreaded my hair this year as I'd had enough of forever trying to be this image that I could never attain, I can't do makeup, don't do fashionable clothes, rarely wear shoes and just don't care. And what came back was that was exactly what this lady was complimenting me on and why the other was feeling extremely intimidated by, because I just don't care about the expectations anymore. So I'm now understanding it is more the energy than the appearance. I'm also loud, I'm an agitator, I say all the crap that no one speaks about, but I will also love you harder than any other because I feel your soul and believe that we are all here to live our own journeys and that must be honoured, should be celebrated and loved moreso! I can feel the lady's insecurities, but also her insecurities for her daughter and I just want to give her a big hug and tell her it will be ok! I've got 10yrs on her daughter who is mid 20's and already 10steps ahead of where I was at that age, but she will get there. 

But ugh some days it would be so nice to not know a thing.... I think I need to master the selective shielding as there is so so much goodness that I don't want to lose, but while I'm trying to work me out there's so much other stuff I don't want to take on and have influence me. 

Renee
@renee
last year
137 posts

Rene'':

Just breath and be just as rude as you need to be lol.    Just because we are Empaths does not mean we cant roar sometimes.   I roar a lot. Lol.   It gets to be tooo much trying to be who they expect us to be.   It gets hard to breath.   It's not like your a narcissist, trying to invade someone else's air.  This is your air!  Your ground.   Put your armor on and scream "I be damn".  Sorry.   I got caught up in the moment.   

What others think of us creates us if we let them.   Your not venting. It's called gaining control of Renee the Empath and what you will allow.  I see it as acceding.    Yes.  We love all but we have to love the real us.  The one with no makeup and hair in a ponytail.    Like it or not World!  That's who we are.  

Find your loving center and show it to the world.   I like your center..by the way.  

And thankyou!!! <3 my centre is a whole lot of gooey fluffy squishy love with a heap of fierceness thrown in... I love it, but just need to find a balance on allowing it out in a productive way. 

Rene''
@rene
last year
1,194 posts

I don't wear shoes either. Hehehe. Except when it gets down to freezing.  

Nikki3
@nikler
last year
116 posts

@rene totally agree!  Loving and accepting ourselves is the key, it truly is.  I make my own choices and I don't care what others think - I live by my own rules.  Now, I do it with integrity, I don't hurt anyone intentionally etc... but I don't try to please anyone but myself.  It brings so much peace.  If someone wants to hate or de-friend me ... whatever.  They are just showing their true colours.  I like who I am, I like my own company, the people who stay organically... those are my real friends... others will come and go and that's ok.  I always say, if you don't like what you see there are other places to look. lol

@renee absolutely more energy than appearance... I'm quiet and I don't wear makeup or do my hair or wear fancy clothes... and people find me intimidating sometimes and it makes me laugh because I'm the softest person in the world.  It's more to do with them though than it is with me... except maybe when I'm wearing my resting b*tch face unintentionally lol.

Cheshire Cat
@cheshire-cat
last year
1,185 posts

renee,

   I LOVE your first post and could have written it. I too am so sick of the LOADED COMMENTS and people who do not have abilities and/or do not believe I have them thinking I am so stupid I cannot pick up the veiled insult. I put up with a few years of that from my former BFF before finally calling her on it just once. Like you said, no matter what you do, you just can't win. All I said was "those digs really hurt" and for that she ended a 52 year friendship. We had been through everything together. I never know what to do when I get those type of comments. They seem impersonal, but then I think.... why send them to me if they're not directed at me? I am in that position right now and have no idea what to do. I want to go crawl into a bear den and hibernate. Being unconscious is the only time I'm free from all the rules of the game, like you said. Trouble is, I don't want to play any damn games. Life is too short.

    Also loved your comments, Rene and Nikki3. I too will not pretend to be someone else, and cannot hide my real feelings. I also have a resting bitch face, lol. I was on TV once getting impatient to have my turn to talk and was horrified to see angry impatience written all over my face when I saw the program later on, lol. I'd never win a poker game.

   C. Cat

Lavender&rose
@lavenderrose
last year
82 posts

Renee:

If you speak up you are too loud. If you don't speak you are shutting everyone out. If you sit patiently and await your turn you are a wall flower and will be completely missed. If you interrupt you are just damn rude. If you dress down you get asked if "are you ok? You look terrible!" If you dress decent judgements are made as to who you are trying to impress. If you speak about it you are causing drama. If you vent to a confidante you are still causing an issue. If you don't speak to anyone you are repressing your feelings and should really open up more! I hate when people send loaded statements and expect that i cannot pick up the undercurrent, yet if you mention that undercurrent you are taking it too serious and it wasn't intended that way. If you don't mention that undercurrent you are allowing yourself to be walked all over. So many goddam rules!

^^This!

Every single word! Thanks for the vent, I so relate.

Nikki3
@nikler
last year
116 posts

@C. Cat - ha ha ha i understand completely I would never win at Poker either, even to a complete stranger!  But then again, I never want to be that person anyway so I'm not hurt by it.

I hate games, I struggle with it too, especially when I know others are doing it.  When I think about 'playing along' like returning a text late to prove a point or pretending I didn't see it because that's what they do, or something like that... (silly example but you get it) because I feel like playing the 'game' back and give them some of their medicine... I always ask myself if that's who I am and I tell myself I am not a game player.  I have integrity and I live by it - others will just have to deal with that.  So, I do what I feel is right and what matches my integrity and if people can't handle that, they'll walk away.  So be it.

I call people on it too... I have a friend who plays stupid games, makes me angry sometimes but I started calling him on it, and I think kind of enjoys it, he sticks around anyway. I flat out tell him when he's being a douche.  I remind him that unlike some other women I mean the words that are coming out of my mouth and nothing else.  Fine means fine, I don't play games.  He offered to hold my horse once so I could hike up the mountain a little bit on foot and get some good pictures... I think he thought I was joking about hiking up there.  I handed him my horse and he was like 'wait a minute I didn't mean it'... so I said too bad don't say things you don't mean and proceeded to head up the mountain... LOL.  He still comes riding with me... maybe it's refreshing to be around an honest person I don't know.  Most of these types don't like my honesty and don't stick around long.

It's kind of lonely, but we are lonely anyway right?  We are lonely in a crowd of people.  However, once we live our life with integrity for a while (ya know strict like a diet) we find something so very precious... our true friends.  Few and far between but what a precious gift.  the few gems we can rely on no matter what.  The process hurts though, there are losses.

Nikki3
@nikler
last year
116 posts

The one I hate the most is when people tell a story about someone else to try and tell you something about yourself.  I can tell they are making the story up just to send a message to me.  I just nod and smile and say 'oh wow, weird' or 'great story, then what happened?' LOL  But it does bother me because I walk away wondering what I'm doing wrong and I also wonder why people just can;t say what's on their mind... like I'm not worth the truth.  I have a file folder in my psych shelf in my head that helps me get over this quickly though.  It's not about me. 

Cheshire Cat
@cheshire-cat
last year
1,185 posts

nikki3,

Thanks for making me feel less alone. We are a lonely bunch comparatively speaking. I think that friend of yours may actually be a true friend if he can take that level of honesty and still hang in there. 

I wonder why some people continue to lie when they know we can read them? As for calling them on it, I have repeated word for word to people the truth as I've seen it in their minds, have them look scared to death and back away from me, and then try to weasel out of it with another even bigger lie! What level of self-deception does it take to do that and think you'll get away with it? Darned if I know. I gave up doing it, since it just makes me feel more frustrated and if I give someone enough rope to hang themselves with, they always comply. It gets boring after awhile. 

I feel like I've been incarnated into the insane asylum of the galaxy. Or maybe I'm in a psych ward right now and am hallucinating this whole life.......Now I'm really scaring myself! That would be a relief though, if I could snap out of it. ;-)

C. Cat

Renee
@renee
last year
137 posts

Nikki3:

The one I hate the most is when people tell a story about someone else to try and tell you something about yourself.  I can tell they are making the story up just to send a message to me.  I just nod and smile and say 'oh wow, weird' or 'great story, then what happened?' LOL  But it does bother me because I walk away wondering what I'm doing wrong and I also wonder why people just can;t say what's on their mind... like I'm not worth the truth.  I have a file folder in my psych shelf in my head that helps me get over this quickly though.  It's not about me. 

Oh oh oh I love this one!!! This exact thing happened in this scenario where I vented to a trusted confidante and the response was very much a "story about another aimed at me!" My issue is im happy to own that, I honestly said "yep I get that I do that it's a difficult and long process to retrain conditioned and learnt behaviours but I'm doing it" .... the person who it came from who is very aware, is an empath and also stated that they can pick up the underlying energies even if others don't, didn't actually have the integrity to say that yes they do those very same things, have done their whole life and refuse to stop playing the game! It frustrates me as there is a high level of vulnerability needed to openely own your bullshit and when you do it and others refuse to see their side or even allow it do be discussed as they will discuss yours it always leaves me feeling extremely violated and let down. I feel like I'm ripped open and then just left there while they continue on holding their shit together under a false bravado!!!! Arrgghhg yep hate that one! 

Renee
@renee
last year
137 posts

Cheshire Cat:

nikki3,

Thanks for making me feel less alone. We are a lonely bunch comparatively speaking. I think that friend of yours may actually be a true friend if he can take that level of honesty and still hang in there. 

I wonder why some people continue to lie when they know we can read them? As for calling them on it, I have repeated word for word to people the truth as I've seen it in their minds, have them look scared to death and back away from me, and then try to weasel out of it with another even bigger lie! What level of self-deception does it take to do that and think you'll get away with it? Darned if I know. I gave up doing it, since it just makes me feel more frustrated and if I give someone enough rope to hang themselves with, they always comply. It gets boring after awhile. 

I feel like I've been incarnated into the insane asylum of the galaxy. Or maybe I'm in a psych ward right now and am hallucinating this whole life.......Now I'm really scaring myself! That would be a relief though, if I could snap out of it. ;-)

C. Cat

I'm so with you both! It is a very lonely life at times, I always feel most alone when surrounded by people. But yea it gets boring when you can pick the lie, then you know the next lie before it's been spoken but have to somehow find the energy to be surprised and try believe the lie.... I do think people need lies. I allow them to have them as I view it as not being able to face their own crap rather than feeling the need to lie to me. But don't call me on my honest bullshit if I can't call you on your dishonest bullshit! 

Cheshire Cat
@cheshire-cat
last year
1,185 posts

Sigh. I also  recognize the examples both of you just gave, Renee and nikki3. People are predictable in our strangeness, lol.

Another one that really gets to me is when others will put up with numerous people who treat them horribly, put them down, walk all over them, take advantage, lie, cheat, mooch, yell at them, and treat them like dirt in general, but the minute I disagree with them on the tiniest little unimportant thing, they drop me as a friend. It makes me feel about as low as you can get, to be worth so little to people. Often, these people have been telling me they love me, I am a "dear friend', I am "like a sister", I can "never lose them no matter what", etc. right up until I say something they don't agree with. 

It has taken awhile to dawn on me, but I think maybe I am interpreting this wrong, and they really feel so badly about themselves that they think they deserve the awful treatment they get, and just use whatever it was I disagreed with them about as an excuse to get rid of me, since they feel I see through their act, whatever it happens to be. They feel they can't live up to what I expect, even though I keep that to myself, since I know I have no right to expect anything from anyone. I guess I am pretty transparent in letting them see what I wish I could expect, since I've even been told by two people that they felt like they were good people until they knew me, and that I made them feel bad about themselves just by being who I am. Their answer to my "making" them feel bad was that I should be less of a "goody two shoes" and "make more mistakes" and "be more human". The idea that I should be less than I can be made me angry, so you would think seeing me blow a gasket would satisfy them, but no, I'm still not nasty enough I guess. It's actually funny to me now. 

I could have more friends than I could handle if I would put up and shut up and play those games. I have standards, and know from experimenting that I am better off alone than to lower them. Being surrounded by the wrong people makes me feel lonelier than being alone. When I was younger, probably the age of most of you, I had a small tight group of very close friends. I had to move for health reasons and have never fit in where I have to live now. I seem to  have a bunch of casual ones instead, most of whom I rarely or never see in person. Casual is just not who I am, so it's hard. 

Can any of you relate to my example above, where "friends" willingly accept awful treatment from others, but the slightest disagreement, even on a relatively unimportant subject is not acceptable when it comes from you? I wonder what I am doing wrong here to be so unvalued.

C. Cat

Rene''
@rene
last year
1,194 posts

Cheshire Cat:

Sigh. I also  recognize the examples both of you just gave, Renee and nikki3. People are predictable in our strangeness, lol.

Another one that really gets to me is when others will put up with numerous people who treat them horribly, put them down, walk all over them, take advantage, lie, cheat, mooch, yell at them, and treat them like dirt in general, but the minute I disagree with them on the tiniest little unimportant thing, they drop me as a friend. It makes me feel about as low as you can get, to be worth so little to people. Often, these people have been telling me they love me, I am a "dear friend', I am "like a sister", I can "never lose them no matter what", etc. right up until I say something they don't agree with. 

It has taken awhile to dawn on me, but I think maybe I am interpreting this wrong, and they really feel so badly about themselves that they think they deserve the awful treatment they get, and just use whatever it was I disagreed with them about as an excuse to get rid of me, since they feel I see through their act, whatever it happens to be. They feel they can't live up to what I expect, even though I keep that to myself, since I know I have no right to expect anything from anyone. I guess I am pretty transparent in letting them see what I wish I could expect, since I've even been told by two people that they felt like they were good people until they knew me, and that I made them feel bad about themselves just by being who I am. Their answer to my "making" them feel bad was that I should be less of a "goody two shoes" and "make more mistakes" and "be more human". The idea that I should be less than I can be made me angry, so you would think seeing me blow a gasket would satisfy them, but no, I'm still not nasty enough I guess. It's actually funny to me now. 

I could have more friends than I could handle if I would put up and shut up and play those games. I have standards, and know from experimenting that I am better off alone than to lower them. Being surrounded by the wrong people makes me feel lonelier than being alone. When I was younger, probably the age of most of you, I had a small tight group of very close friends. I had to move for health reasons and have never fit in where I have to live now. I seem to  have a bunch of casual ones instead, most of whom I rarely or never see in person. Casual is just not who I am, so it's hard. 

Can any of you relate to my example above, where "friends" willingly accept awful treatment from others, but the slightest disagreement, even on a relatively unimportant subject is not acceptable when it comes from you? I wonder what I am doing wrong here to be so unvalued.

C. Cat

I can!    I can relate way too well.  A lot of people wants us around to make them look pure or "good". They don't want our opinion and it's mostly because they could not handle our opinion. They just want to wear us like a badge.  

I have spent much of my life keeping my mouth shut around certain people because I did not want to hurt them with the truth. I have heard some vile confessions from people of how they have treated other people because "they deserved it".   I have took on so much ugliest in from people it made me so sick I withdraw in to a corner but in that corner I found myself.  I realized I did not need these people as much as they needed me so the blunt truth started pouring out of my mouth and it was like weeding a garden.   Poof, they were gone.   

Now, my small group of friends know that if they ask my opinion they are going to get my true opinion , not something that's going to make them feel better.   There is way too much pain in this world and I just can't waste me energy on people that is going to abuse it    I'm here to help, not to be co dependent to evil.  But  ...that's just me    I know you all think I'm sweet but it's because I have chosen to be around sweet souls that brings out the sweetness in me .   Your reflection of love and caring beams the light into me I guess you could say     You just dont realize how bright your light is      Thank you 


updated by @rene: 11/10/16 08:30:07PM
Nikki3
@nikler
last year
116 posts

@C.Cat - yeah he may turn out to be a true friend, he probably just got tired of people using and abusing him, we nearly lost our friendship because he bailed on me last minute a few times because he was afraid to hurt my feelings by saying no... and I gave it to him.  Told him I could have made other plan and he needs to learn to be honest with me, saying no is a kindness, bailing is just rude.  I think he's really been through the ringer with crazy women so I give him a chance... enough rope to hang himself and he keeps wiggling out so I let him...with conditions.  He's a trooper, most would walk away with my blunt truths.  He's also learning, if I ask him if he's coming riding he's learning to say yes or no instead of some lame answer and maybe show up.

@renee - totally agree I think it's a toss up between pushing someone who's being a douche into seeing it and coming clean and those who are simply terrified someone will see.  The difference being self-confidence.  My friend is very self confident and not much worried about having friends, he has many.  I think some people who need their lies to seemingly protect them from whatever - job loss, friend loss, self-esteem loss... I have some empathy for them and until they decide to change there's nothing you can do and their fear is real to them.  Determining the difference is an acquired skill - although the ones who will turn around are so few and far between not sure how anyone learns to tell the difference.  

Nikki3
@nikler
last year
116 posts

Rene'':


Cheshire Cat:

Sigh. I also  recognize the examples both of you just gave, Renee and nikki3. People are predictable in our strangeness, lol.

Another one that really gets to me is when others will put up with numerous people who treat them horribly, put them down, walk all over them, take advantage, lie, cheat, mooch, yell at them, and treat them like dirt in general, but the minute I disagree with them on the tiniest little unimportant thing, they drop me as a friend. It makes me feel about as low as you can get, to be worth so little to people. Often, these people have been telling me they love me, I am a "dear friend', I am "like a sister", I can "never lose them no matter what", etc. right up until I say something they don't agree with. 

It has taken awhile to dawn on me, but I think maybe I am interpreting this wrong, and they really feel so badly about themselves that they think they deserve the awful treatment they get, and just use whatever it was I disagreed with them about as an excuse to get rid of me, since they feel I see through their act, whatever it happens to be. They feel they can't live up to what I expect, even though I keep that to myself, since I know I have no right to expect anything from anyone. I guess I am pretty transparent in letting them see what I wish I could expect, since I've even been told by two people that they felt like they were good people until they knew me, and that I made them feel bad about themselves just by being who I am. Their answer to my "making" them feel bad was that I should be less of a "goody two shoes" and "make more mistakes" and "be more human". The idea that I should be less than I can be made me angry, so you would think seeing me blow a gasket would satisfy them, but no, I'm still not nasty enough I guess. It's actually funny to me now. 

I could have more friends than I could handle if I would put up and shut up and play those games. I have standards, and know from experimenting that I am better off alone than to lower them. Being surrounded by the wrong people makes me feel lonelier than being alone. When I was younger, probably the age of most of you, I had a small tight group of very close friends. I had to move for health reasons and have never fit in where I have to live now. I seem to  have a bunch of casual ones instead, most of whom I rarely or never see in person. Casual is just not who I am, so it's hard. 

Can any of you relate to my example above, where "friends" willingly accept awful treatment from others, but the slightest disagreement, even on a relatively unimportant subject is not acceptable when it comes from you? I wonder what I am doing wrong here to be so unvalued.

C. Cat


I can!    I can relate way too well.  A lot of people wants us around to make them look pure or "good". They don't want our opinion and it's mostly because they could not handle our opinion. They just want to wear us like a badge.  

I have spent much of my life keeping my mouth shut around certain people because I did not want to hurt them with the truth. I have heard some vile confessions from people of how they have treated other people because "they deserved it".   I have took on so much ugliest in from people it made me so sick I withdraw in to a corner but in that corner I found myself.  I realized I did not need these people as much as they needed me so the blunt truth started pouring out of my mouth and it was like weeding a garden.   Poof, they were gone.   

Now, my small group of friends know that if they ask my opinion they are going to get my true opinion , not something that's going to make them feel better.   There is way too much pain in this world and I just can't waste me energy on people that is going to abuse it    I'm here to help, not to be co dependent to evil.  But  ...that's just me    I know you all think I'm sweet but it's because I have chosen to be around sweet souls that brings out the sweetness in me .   Your reflection of love and caring beams the light into me I guess you could say     You just dont realize how bright your light is      Thank you 

@C.Cat I think you hit the nail on the head... these people either feel they deserve the abuse (like an abusee returns to the abuser because they don't know how to cope with anything else) or you make them look bad. Your last comment about having the slightest disagreement is not acceptable... maybe it's because they are looking to gain some approval from you, a good person, like a a child would look to a parent for approval... so they can feel good about themselves, and not getting any from a good person like you must mean they can't do anything right so go back to the bad people where they then feel like the better person in the crowd?  It's frustrating but I'm always thankful when people show their true colours... believe them.

@Rene - agreed... you become who you surround yourself with.  Two candles in the dark shine brighter than one.  You know how they say if you want to be something or learn something get close to someone who's doing it well.

C.Cat - not sure how to word this but we spend a lot of time trying to find a friend in everyone instead of trying to find the right friend.  Spend some time searching the crowd for a 'like-soul' instead of putting every single one through the test of friendship.  Does that make sense?  Like if you were in the mall and you are tip toe looking down the hallway trying to find your best friend who said they'd meet you... you're not interviewing everyone you meet to see if they might be your best friend but looking for the one that is acting like the one person you are looking for.  Perspective changes everything. 

Cheshire Cat
@cheshire-cat
last year
1,185 posts

Rene and nikki3,

Thank you so much for the very thoughtful responses. I am now in that same situation once again, where my opinion is unacceptable and has resulted in my being called some hurtful and untrue things, but this time I will not handle it the way I've done in the past, which was by falling apart completely for months, and not going a single day without thinking of the loss of someone I loved with unbearable sadness lasting for years. I have a new mantra I use in my Qi Gong each morning, ie. "It's not mine, it's not reality, it's not worth it, and I am safe". 

Your comments have helped a lot. I have been practicing detachment meditation for awhile now, and I think I finally am there, for which I am very grateful to this same person, who ironically is the one who got me interested in it. I think I have been through this often enough now that I have become numb and find myself very calm and unaffected, and have been able to sleep just fine. I am up in the middle of the night, but that is normal for me, since I have 3 sleep disorders. I can simply let it go, or maybe just express thanks for all the things I've learned from her and always remember them.

nikki3 - Do you ever read themindsjournal? I just saw an article there recently called 'Blunt friends are the best kind to have" which you may enjoy. I agree that many people need lies to handle life and I can feel which areas I must leave alone and not comment on, but maybe I go over the line sometimes when I see someone ruining their life over the same issue endlessly. They'd rather have the familiar drama of abuse than face reality, drop toxic people and have some peace I guess. I do not know because I can't relate to wanting those kind of people in my life. I get dropped instead of the toxic people. As an "extreme realist" I get frustrated with this and maybe it shows and they feel judged. Like I said, I'm not good at games. I know this constant undervaluation of my worth as a friend must be partly my fault, since I am the common denominator in it, so I'm trying to guess what I am doing wrong to make people value me so little. It may be that I am doing something right too, in which case I am totally ready to accept being friendless the rest of my life rather than play a game. I still have several casual friends and they'll have to be enough.though most live far from me now. 

I don't look for friends in everyone or even anyone now, after losing so many close ones in a row, which is fulfilling a premonition I had that I would lose everyone I care about before I can die, even my husband. and that would kill me off too if I lost him. I don't meet many people due to being cooped up in a tiny home office running my husband's business, and the state of my own health limits my activities a lot. I have not found anyone here in 36 years who is really my kind of friend and I have tried and tried. There is one who comes close, but works so much I hardly see her. She says  I am her only friend. I did meet one on EC here who mirrored me and seemed perfect, but it was an act to draw me in and then control my life. I was the one to end that and it hurt just as much to have to be on the other end.

Like Renee said at the start of this thread, people are just impossible to please and in my case they make no effort to please me, but expect me to bend over backwards to please them. If we teach people how to treat us, then how can we be kind and firm at the same time? IME, that results in them getting huffy and leaving. I am DONE walking on egg shells. It is too bad nobody except two of my old friends like me enough to argue with me over anything and still respect and like me, the mark of true caring. It's easier to accept differences when it's casual, I guess. Emotional investment seems to require more and more conformity from people.

I have to go back to bed. This has been an interesting thread and I hope we all learned from it that we are not alone in having these problems. I sure got some help. Thanks.

C. Cat

Nikki3
@nikler
last year
116 posts

Cheshire Cat:

Rene and nikki3,

Thank you so much for the very thoughtful responses. I am now in that same situation once again, where my opinion is unacceptable and has resulted in my being called some hurtful and untrue things, but this time I will not handle it the way I've done in the past, which was by falling apart completely for months, and not going a single day without thinking of the loss of someone I loved with unbearable sadness lasting for years. I have a new mantra I use in my Qi Gong each morning, ie. "It's not mine, it's not reality, it's not worth it, and I am safe". 

Your comments have helped a lot. I have been practicing detachment meditation for awhile now, and I think I finally am there, for which I am very grateful to this same person, who ironically is the one who got me interested in it. I think I have been through this often enough now that I have become numb and find myself very calm and unaffected, and have been able to sleep just fine. I am up in the middle of the night, but that is normal for me, since I have 3 sleep disorders. I can simply let it go, or maybe just express thanks for all the things I've learned from her and always remember them.

nikki3 - Do you ever read themindsjournal? I just saw an article there recently called 'Blunt friends are the best kind to have" which you may enjoy. I agree that many people need lies to handle life and I can feel which areas I must leave alone and not comment on, but maybe I go over the line sometimes when I see someone ruining their life over the same issue endlessly. They'd rather have the familiar drama of abuse than face reality, drop toxic people and have some peace I guess. I do not know because I can't relate to wanting those kind of people in my life. I get dropped instead of the toxic people. As an "extreme realist" I get frustrated with this and maybe it shows and they feel judged. Like I said, I'm not good at games. I know this constant undervaluation of my worth as a friend must be partly my fault, since I am the common denominator in it, so I'm trying to guess what I am doing wrong to make people value me so little. It may be that I am doing something right too, in which case I am totally ready to accept being friendless the rest of my life rather than play a game. I still have several casual friends and they'll have to be enough.though most live far from me now. 

I don't look for friends in everyone or even anyone now, after losing so many close ones in a row, which is fulfilling a premonition I had that I would lose everyone I care about before I can die, even my husband. and that would kill me off too if I lost him. I don't meet many people due to being cooped up in a tiny home office running my husband's business, and the state of my own health limits my activities a lot. I have not found anyone here in 36 years who is really my kind of friend and I have tried and tried. There is one who comes close, but works so much I hardly see her. She says  I am her only friend. I did meet one on EC here who mirrored me and seemed perfect, but it was an act to draw me in and then control my life. I was the one to end that and it hurt just as much to have to be on the other end.

Like Renee said at the start of this thread, people are just impossible to please and in my case they make no effort to please me, but expect me to bend over backwards to please them. If we teach people how to treat us, then how can we be kind and firm at the same time? IME, that results in them getting huffy and leaving. I am DONE walking on egg shells. It is too bad nobody except two of my old friends like me enough to argue with me over anything and still respect and like me, the mark of true caring. It's easier to accept differences when it's casual, I guess. Emotional investment seems to require more and more conformity from people.

I have to go back to bed. This has been an interesting thread and I hope we all learned from it that we are not alone in having these problems. I sure got some help. Thanks.

C. Cat

CCat, I have read that article and thankfully I have a blunt friend, she's a true friend, very rare and hard to find.  I can only handle being around her in short bursts though, it can be overwhelming but I know she has my back.  She told me once when we were talking about relationships that I 'give it up to easy' meaning my heart - I get attached to people nearly instantly if I like them or enjoy their company in any way shape or form.  She told me I need to stop doing that.  She's right.  It's hard because I always see only the good in people until they prove me wrong and I fall in love (not necessarily romantically just heartfelt love) with people's potential.  I tend to expect people to live up to the potential I see and am devastated when they don't.  This is where realizing I am an empath is starting to help me with this problem because before I didn't know that everyone else couldn't see it.  Understanding that I see things most people don't is good and bad because it takes me a long time of knowing someone to find out what that difference is and to understand the parts of that person's character they've chosen to use.

I need to actively focus on actions and judge character by what people do because otherwise I judge by their potential and that is always a disaster.

It sure is nice to know we're not alone... I have always had a strong personality and am noted to be a happy person by all who know me.  So, I feel lucky in a way, maybe it's because of the way my mom raised me but I'm pretty good at dusting myself off and moving on, finding my happy place and that is a true blessing.  Love and light to you my friend, keep being your authentic self :)

Cheshire Cat
@cheshire-cat
last year
1,185 posts

Nikki,

I don't know how old you are, but I would have written exactly what you just wrote when I was  much younger. I think I was about 50 when things started to change and I stopped seeing only the good. I'm a slow learner, lol, and am now 65.  I realized that potential is just that, potential only, and I can't make anyone use it. People rarely change. I think this is not just an empath issue. I have noticed that young women are far more likely to fall in love with potential than men are, and to think if we just love someone enough, they will change for us. I said "young women" because I don't know anyone near to my age who still believes that.  I also have to look at my own unused potential and my own bad choices, many of which were not really clear until I was too old to do anything to reverse them. 

Like you, I've also been told by friends that I am "too easy" and that I put up with mistreatment far too long before I speak up. That is true. I tend to be so shocked when people behave in a way that I never would that I just do nothing. I don't know what to say to them, since I can't conceive of why they act or speak that way. Once it builds to where it becomes intolerable to my self esteem, then I blow, like a volcano. That rage is something I am working on, but it's darn difficult after a lifetime of this garbage and when I know that even an early, reasonable attempt to disagree with someone will result in them dropping me, so I keep holding on, which I know is stupid. If they're going to drop me for something ridiculous, then let's get it over with and quit wasting my time. 

I am also old enough to remember when almost everyone respected other people's right to disagree and they were still friends! Imagine that. That is as rare as hen's teeth now. 

I am considering writing to both my former BFF and my recent BFF since it is 11-11, and sending them positive appreciation magnified by the date 11-11, in gratefulness for all I learned from them, sine I truly do not feel any animosity at all, a wonderful gift from my studies of non-attachment and huge doses of Omega 3 EPA oil, which have helped calm me down tremendously. But, I don't expect anything to change from that. 

I think it wonderful that you are starting to realize these things at such a young age. Hopefully, you will not end up as worn out and untrusting as I am as a result of your early insights. :-)

C. Cat

Nikki3
@nikler
last year
116 posts

Cheshire Cat:

Nikki,

I don't know how old you are, but I would have written exactly what you just wrote when I was  much younger. I think I was about 50 when things started to change and I stopped seeing only the good. I'm a slow learner, lol, and am now 65.  I realized that potential is just that, potential only, and I can't make anyone use it. People rarely change. I think this is not just an empath issue. I have noticed that young women are far more likely to fall in love with potential than men are, and to think if we just love someone enough, they will change for us. I said "young women" because I don't know anyone near to my age who still believes that.  I also have to look at my own unused potential and my own bad choices, many of which were not really clear until I was too old to do anything to reverse them. 

Like you, I've also been told by friends that I am "too easy" and that I put up with mistreatment far too long before I speak up. That is true. I tend to be so shocked when people behave in a way that I never would that I just do nothing. I don't know what to say to them, since I can't conceive of why they act or speak that way. Once it builds to where it becomes intolerable to my self esteem, then I blow, like a volcano. That rage is something I am working on, but it's darn difficult after a lifetime of this garbage and when I know that even an early, reasonable attempt to disagree with someone will result in them dropping me, so I keep holding on, which I know is stupid. If they're going to drop me for something ridiculous, then let's get it over with and quit wasting my time. 

I am also old enough to remember when almost everyone respected other people's right to disagree and they were still friends! Imagine that. That is as rare as hen's teeth now. 

I am considering writing to both my former BFF and my recent BFF since it is 11-11, and sending them positive appreciation magnified by the date 11-11, in gratefulness for all I learned from them, sine I truly do not feel any animosity at all, a wonderful gift from my studies of non-attachment and huge doses of Omega 3 EPA oil, which have helped calm me down tremendously. But, I don't expect anything to change from that. 

I think it wonderful that you are starting to realize these things at such a young age. Hopefully, you will not end up as worn out and untrusting as I am as a result of your early insights. :-)

C. Cat

CCat - 43 not too old, not young enough lol. People don't change I've known that for a long time, what i didn't know until recently is how much i see that others don't. Invisible thins like potential, that's a new aspect for me. Slow learner too but that's because i have no one to teach me i just figure stuff as i go along. 

I agree with not wasting time too... it's like you have to invest so much in people inorder to find out if they are legit or if you wanna keep them. Can't people just cut to the chase? I'm so impatient with relationships, either you like me or ya don't lol.  Doesn't fly with most people, they gotta test you and ask around about you and hum and haw about you... sigh... so much work and energy for so little reward. 

I have so much untapped potential, i look back and see what i could have done with myself but it's too late for a lot of things,  if only i knew then. I try not to dwell on it.

I put up with far too much too but i don't rage, i walk away and never look back, once I'm done, I'm totally done. Sounds like we're a lot alike. 

Cheshire Cat
@cheshire-cat
last year
1,185 posts

Nikki,

   Yep, we sound a lot alike, except that I have very advanced have Lyme Disease, and instant, uncontrollable  rage is an unfortunate part of that. I had zero temper before I got sick and in fact, no temper was pretty much a requirement for my former profession.

     The non-attachment meditations and huge doses of Omega 3 fish oil I take are helping a lot with keeping my cool, but I also avoid people who trigger me like the plague and isolate a lot to do it, since I do not want to go off at people, and like most empaths, I hate confrontations.

    Like you, I normally remove myself from those people, having moved and left jobs numerous  times to avoid confrontation when I was single, but I now live in a place I cannot move from due to my husband's business, where I have horrible neighbors on two sides, and was subjected to almost 3 decades of abuse from a Narcissist FIL and BIL. The BIL still lives next door, but we cannot move for reasons I won't bore you with. I use very strong shields, and our 6 ft. tall solid wood fence helps too. 

   At 43, I think of you as a spring chicken! If I was 43, I'd be in graduate school, making up for the biggest mistake I ever made, which was not getting my PhD so I could do challenging work instead of the boring stuff I got with only a BA. I also needed it so I could be in a job where i could surround myself with other brainiacs like me and not feel like such a freak among the people I am exposed to. I would put serving the happiness of men in my life last instead of first like I did, and serve my own happiness first. I had hoped my generation was the last one to do that, but I have seen some disturbing evidence that it is not so. 

   There is a famous saying about us being crushed between regret over the past, which leads to depression, and fear of the future, which leads to anxiety. I think staying in the present would got a long way to ease the endless ruminations empaths are prone to, but it sure is hard to maintain!

C. Cat

Cheshire Cat
@cheshire-cat
last year
1,185 posts

For anyone who has been reading my posts on this thread:

Amazing news! I did decide to go ahead and write positive 11-11 messages of love and forgiveness to both my 52 yr. long BFF, who ended it a year and a half ago, and to the person who has been my closest friend for the last 3 yrs. and got very angry with me a few days ago. I am not sure how that last will be received yet and wish her well no matter what, but am glad I expressed my gratitude for having had her in my life, regardless of outcome.

The good news is I now have my oldest friend back after a nasty and seemingly final end to a very long friendship and a year and a half apart! We just got off the phone. It turned out she'd been feeling just as bad about what happened and my email love offering was an excuse to tell me so. I was shocked, since I did not expect any response. We talked it all out, I was assertive about how much it hurt me and how I would not tolerate certain things, and we agreed to only use the phone from now on, since email misunderstandings due to the tone of voice were the main cause of the problem to begin with. I will not be super trusting here until I see what happens, if ever, and it will be a less close relationship than before, since we are so different now than in younger days, but it shows what you can accomplish when you reach out in humility and love. 

For anyone who has lost a dear friend, there may be hope if you can make the first move. :-)

Nikki3
@nikler
last year
116 posts

Cheshire Cat:

For anyone who has been reading my posts on this thread:

Amazing news! I did decide to go ahead and write positive 11-11 messages of love and forgiveness to both my 52 yr. long BFF, who ended it a year and a half ago, and to the person who has been my closest friend for the last 3 yrs. and got very angry with me a few days ago. I am not sure how that last will be received yet and wish her well no matter what, but am glad I expressed my gratitude for having had her in my life, regardless of outcome.

The good news is I now have my oldest friend back after a nasty and seemingly final end to a very long friendship and a year and a half apart! We just got off the phone. It turned out she'd been feeling just as bad about what happened and my email love offering was an excuse to tell me so. I was shocked, since I did not expect any response. We talked it all out, I was assertive about how much it hurt me and how I would not tolerate certain things, and we agreed to only use the phone from now on, since email misunderstandings due to the tone of voice were the main cause of the problem to begin with. I will not be super trusting here until I see what happens, if ever, and it will be a less close relationship than before, since we are so different now than in younger days, but it shows what you can accomplish when you reach out in humility and love. 

For anyone who has lost a dear friend, there may be hope if you can make the first move. :-)

Wow! That's awesome CCat... i cried a little reading this.  52 yearsof friendship is a lot to throw away, i hope things work out. 😀

Cheshire Cat
@cheshire-cat
last year
1,185 posts

Thanks for the caring, Nikki.

It is now 54 yrs. of friendship by my count, since we never stopped loving each other. We were just both too proud to be first to ask to try to work it out again. Stupid pride. 

I also have 2 other friendships that have lasted 54 years, since all of them started when I moved to a new state and began the 7th grade. One I hear from rarely, but the other is still a close one and I trust her totally. She has known me since I was a 12 yr. old wild child, lol.

I found the childhood friends are the ones who stick with you when you become seriously ill. The friends  I'd made where I live now as an adult all left me when I got sick, with only 2 exceptions, and they were both casual friends who turned out to be life savers. 

Studies show the happiest people are those who never move more than 60 miles from where they grew up. Other studies were done to find out why and it turned out only one thing mattered....those people still had some of their childhood friends. These folks bond with you just like siblings, before you are old enough to start discriminating, so the bonds tend to be more unconditional. 

I made a point out of keeping old friends despite moving so far away, since it is hard for me to find people who meet my ethical standards and have enough brains or curiosity to interest me. I'll bet you can relate to that. I think all empaths want people with high ethics.

C. Cat

Renee
@renee
last year
137 posts

Cheshire Cat:

Sigh. I also  recognize the examples both of you just gave, Renee and nikki3. People are predictable in our strangeness, lol.

Another one that really gets to me is when others will put up with numerous people who treat them horribly, put them down, walk all over them, take advantage, lie, cheat, mooch, yell at them, and treat them like dirt in general, but the minute I disagree with them on the tiniest little unimportant thing, they drop me as a friend. It makes me feel about as low as you can get, to be worth so little to people. Often, these people have been telling me they love me, I am a "dear friend', I am "like a sister", I can "never lose them no matter what", etc. right up until I say something they don't agree with. 

It has taken awhile to dawn on me, but I think maybe I am interpreting this wrong, and they really feel so badly about themselves that they think they deserve the awful treatment they get, and just use whatever it was I disagreed with them about as an excuse to get rid of me, since they feel I see through their act, whatever it happens to be. They feel they can't live up to what I expect, even though I keep that to myself, since I know I have no right to expect anything from anyone. I guess I am pretty transparent in letting them see what I wish I could expect, since I've even been told by two people that they felt like they were good people until they knew me, and that I made them feel bad about themselves just by being who I am. Their answer to my "making" them feel bad was that I should be less of a "goody two shoes" and "make more mistakes" and "be more human". The idea that I should be less than I can be made me angry, so you would think seeing me blow a gasket would satisfy them, but no, I'm still not nasty enough I guess. It's actually funny to me now. 

I could have more friends than I could handle if I would put up and shut up and play those games. I have standards, and know from experimenting that I am better off alone than to lower them. Being surrounded by the wrong people makes me feel lonelier than being alone. When I was younger, probably the age of most of you, I had a small tight group of very close friends. I had to move for health reasons and have never fit in where I have to live now. I seem to  have a bunch of casual ones instead, most of whom I rarely or never see in person. Casual is just not who I am, so it's hard. 

Can any of you relate to my example above, where "friends" willingly accept awful treatment from others, but the slightest disagreement, even on a relatively unimportant subject is not acceptable when it comes from you? I wonder what I am doing wrong here to be so unvalued.

C. Cat

Oh I know this one,  from both sides. You are the light bringer to those who are standing in the dark. It takes a massive amount of constant negative self talk to allow yourself to stay in the dark being mistreated and abused (I know I allowed it for 10yrs) and when those loving friends and family would come looking for me holding the lantern that light was so freaking bright it was painful. There's a lot of fear associated with it. It means going against everything you know to trust that you could have a better life, that you are in fact worthwhile, and that means questioning you've ever known and believed. It's difficult to step out of your comfort zone and sometimes your comfort zone is a dark and dangerous place. It took me a long time to step out, and the adjustments and learning to trust that life can be safe, and stable, and good and ok has been a really long road. However I now have children who have spent their entire lives in that darkness, who do not trust anything good and I am finding it so very difficult working out how to get them to slowly move out of it and allow themselves to be happy in the light. I'm also now on the other side standing in the light while a lifelong friend has retreated into the darkness, knowingly allowing herself to be mistreated, accepting abuse, having watched me go through mine but now trying to justify hers with - it's not that bad, it will get better, he will change... 

it is so hard to be in either of those positions. I just made it clear to her that I will always love her and am here when she is ready, but until then I can't be around to see it. 

I have those close to me who also know that from time to time I may slip back into that self defeatist space and to just allow me to explore it and resolve it and then move out on my own..... 

i would suggest that it's not that it's not acceptable coming from you, but that you are on a bit of a pedestal for them. Or that they are struggling with the light you bring and therefore take the excuse to stop the friendship. In their own time they will see. 

Cheshire Cat
@cheshire-cat
last year
1,185 posts

Hi Renee,

Thanks for your perspective. I have just recently mended fences with two people I was in this position with. There is one more I wish to do so with, but like your friend, I can't push her. It's not my job to fix her, but to be there to listen, which I can't do when I am being rejected due to her bitterness over her situation and her guilt because my situation is worse but I handle it better. We are different and she should not compare herself to me. I have made some peace with it, but it is sad. I hope your situation will have a happy ending as well, and that your example of success will show your children and your friend a way out just by being who you are, a shining example for when they are ready.

May you be blessed,

C. Cat

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