updated by @merin-eliz: 09/01/18 12:10:44PM
I'm with John. I was vegetarian for 15 years and went back to eating meat for health reasons about 20 years ago. My body does better for it. And Merin, you are right, all life is sacred. There is a reason why every tradition blesses their food, be it indigenous cultures or any of the major religions.
So are you saying it's okay to consume a brain dead person? Yes, plants may not feel pain, but they do fight back to being eaten. Most plants when being eaten be animals produce substances called secondary metabolites that can harm the animal. For examples, if a plant leaf is being chewed on by a goat, the plant produced volatile secondary metabolites. These chemicals will enter the goats stomach and cause harm to the goat. These compounds also diffuse in the air and warn the other plants hat a goat is nearby and have the other plants produce the metabolites faster in defence. So, one can't exactly say plants just stand there and do nothing. Fundamentally all organisms want to survive.
Plants do not just grow and rot. They grow to a certain level, then survive by photosynthesising and regenerating their cells. And then after they reach a point the die. But that's what all living beings do. We all just grow, then sustain ourselves and then die. And many plants have been known to live longer than most animals.
Yes, I do agree all necessary proteins and vitamins can be found in plants. (except for vitamin b12 and creatine, but i get we can supplement that. So that's alright). I do not believe vegans are weaker. I' m not sure why people even believe that. Yes, Horses, cattle and elephants are indeed very strong and have a healthy lifestyle. But heir digestive system are optimised for consuming only those. Even if they were given meat they would take it, not because they think it's unhealthy but because they can't digest it. But that doesn't mean that it's the vegetarian food that's making it stronger. The horse's body is optimised such that it's can withstand running or carrying loads. Same for the other animals. It's more of an evolutionary advantage than a dietary one. That being said, we humans who consume meat in moderation is not unhealthy either. As far as health goes I wouldn't say a vegetarian diet or otherwise it makes much of a difference if you take everything in moderation. These lifestyle diseases are mainly cause when one hogs down meat in large amounts. (Which can even happen with plants, too much tomato can cause acid reflux.)
And we all know as far as going organic goes it's not practical, because not everyone gets organic food. it's not available here. And even if you do, we can't always assure that i's totally organic and even if they are sometimes they are not economical always.
I do want to clarify, is the reason most people are vegetarian because they can't stan dthe suffering or they can't stand a life being taken? If it is the suffering, then would you be okay if the animals were anaesthetised before killing? I'm asking out of curiosity and not arguing.
I understand that you are passionate about the subject and I respect you for that. I agree that animals need not be cause suffering. And in fact, if I find animals being used for clothes or entertainment I go against it a lot. But my only problem was a dilemma that plants need to be taken into account as well. And I have to say, my pet and my plant feels the same to me. Yes, my pet maybe active, maybe able to communicate in some forms to me, and maybe visibly alive. My plants may just stand there, but I feel life in them too. (I might even say that sometimes I feel them happy.Although I can't prove it to you or anything. ) I feel their energy, they're as much alive to as are animals.
Yes, watching animals being slaughtered is very depressing. I guess most of are okay with animals being used as pet food because there is no other choice. But we as, humans as you said can survive without plants. I never question that.
I think my appetite diminishes sometimes an then comes back again. I'm not sure why.
Yes, organic food is a nice middle ground, but I doubt I can do that, cause we don't get that here and when we do, they just lie about it being organic or ethically sourced. (it's sad.) I actually just enjoy the taste of chicken, I don't like other meats much. And I don't like chicken as much now. I have no idea why.
I'm not sure, but I might do that too. Mainly because I'm beginning to not like the taste of meat much.
Blessings to you too!
Well, you compared the two and said they were alike so I was wondering if that was a possibility. I didn't mean it in a hostile way. I was just exploring the possibilities out of curiosity. I'm sorry if it felt that way to you. Now I understand what you meant better.
So, you meant to say that the diet is an example of how we people wouldn't need meat to strong. Yes, a horse wouldn't need meat. But you see that's because it's a herbivore. They can digest everything in it's diet and can use it best. We humans can't digest the cellulose in plants.We have two different digestive systems. That would be like saying, a lion eats only meat and is healthy, so only eating meat is totally okay. But it isn't we need plants for a lot of stuff. Yeast extracts don't naturally provide vitamin b12, they have to be fortified with it, which is why I sai supplements. Not sure about creatine though. But you must be right there.
Yes, I guess that's true. Plants being pruned does help them when we are eating.
No, you're not seeming hostile. You just seem passionate. And I can relate to that cause there are a lot of things i'm passionate about as well. One really can't eat animals they know have suffered. Which is why I felt the same about plants.
Yes all those awful products are so bad. When eating you can atleast say it's to survive (although i'm not saying one ought to us it as an excuse.) But using animals for beauty products, and clothes and all. That's just awful. Killing animals to satisfy someone's ego is just awful.
No, no, I really didn't mean that it is optimized to carry load. I just meant that it's leg muscles are strong. Not for carrying load but for running and stuff. I just said carrying load there cause I couldn't find a strenous enough activity for horses to cite as example. That's just people being manipulative of the nature around them.
Ok, i'm asking his only for knowing your view on this cause I like hearing things in other people's perspectives, so that I may see all points of this. i'm not being hostile. So, you consider only organisms with blood and and systems like us worthy of saving? Yes, I know you don't mean to condemn anyone else. And I agree, we cannot stop others from eating meat. But hey you can single handely change the world. There have been many who have done it.
Yes, of course, the animal kingdom is amazing. Being a student in zoology each day I see how wonderful animals are and how diverse and beautiful they are.
I don't think most if us have a choice, most of us are not so advanced that we can survive without food... I try to be as respectful and grateful as possible, and I have made it clear to Creation that I am willing to come back as a plant, insect, animal etc. to help other life forms. I just hope that I'll be treated nicely then
I guess it is impossible to know how much exactly plants 'feel', and how much they are happy about being eaten. Some eating is obviously part of a plants life-cycle - e.g. fruit seed, being carried further afield if eaten and carried off. With other non-fruit foods it is harder to know. I do plan to ask, to know for sure, once I have left my body (naturally!).
It is true, likely an animal will not enjoy being killed, but then that is a very small part of it's life-span, and if it has been treated well before... My mum grew up on a farm, and e.g. told me that cows are dependent on being milked. Many farm animals might not be able to survive in the wild anymore... Still I am vegetarian (again), not vegan though. It helps keep the arguments down in my head - lol. For plants I pray that they should, if necessary, be helped to be grown, cut, packaged, transported, cooked, ect. - as painfree and joyous as possible. At least for 'my share'.
The whole topic used to be a HUGE one, especially during the first three years, after waking up spiritually. i was so desperate, as I did not want to hurt other beings, I contemplated leaving my body assisted. I have now come to see though that it was mainly energies trying to weaken me. I hope that me staying in my body and trying my best to be a Light is of greater benefit to life on this planet, than me leaving. Just to be sure I prayed back then that Spirit should please take me out of my body asap, if I caused undue harm by living - eating, etc. That was 15+ years ago, so I therefore too assume it is fine to 'eat'.... (Oh, another reason why I think that 'eating' worries are just negative energy attacks is, that I found patterns too. I.e. even years after having 'sorted the issue in my mind and heart - I used to get 'attacked' by severe eating doubts, and fears, every time, about 2-3 weeks before traveling home, for x-mas, to Germany, Once back in the UK, the fears would dissipate very quickly. For the last two years they do not hit anymore, so whatever caused them seems to be healed off. I assume it was some German collective subconscious resistances...)
I agree that humans are the worst animals on this planet. We are destroying it for a delusional benefit (money = happiness). We are very conceited and wasteful and abusive to the planet and everything on it. Being a westerner, I respect the lifestyle of the Indians the most. They were more respectful, appreciative, and conscientious of their use of the land.
My belief is that meat eating started in the Paleolithic period, when cave people wanted to prevent future hunger, so they stocked up on food. They weren't satisfied by the amount of plants, nuts, berries, etc. that they could gather, so they started hunting animals (fish, rodents, small animals). That was when humans went from gatherers to hunter-gatherers. I believe we started as gatherers who ate what we could find on the land as travelers by foot, stopping to eat when we got hungry or finding a place to rest when we needed to rest. We lived mostly in the present, satisfying our present needs (there was no past to speak of yet and we didn't fear the future). But as our brains developed and we associated hunger with pain and satisfaction from eating with pleasure, we became fearful of the future (hunger) and started hoarding to prevent hunger. Therefore, our present became tainted with fear about the future. (When in reality, we should only be living in the present, like animals. Our thoughts about the future is why humans have egos and all other animals do not.) And to this day, we can't get enough of anything.