Vegetarianism

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Merin Eliz
@merin-eliz
last year
100 posts
So, I have this question regarding vegetarianism. I've wanted to be a vegetarian, but I keep hearing people say that it prevents cruelty and respects life. What I don't understand is, isn't plants life? When we eat them aren't we hurting life? Some may say its lesser of the two evils, but is there such a thing as less evil when it comes to killing other living beings? No matter what we'll always be hurting some living being when we eat, won't we? What are your views?
updated by @merin-eliz: 03/13/17 04:51:41AM
Merin Eliz
@merin-eliz
last year
100 posts
Thank you for replying! Wow, you've been drawn to eating meat? So, I guess it does differ with person.
Gem
@gem
last year
220 posts
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has things like this in my head :)I was vegetarian after my class (age13) were shown a graphic video of what happens to livestock. Half the class turned vegetarians but most went back to meat after a week. I was pretty traumatised and was vegetarian till I was around 16.Since then I still don't each much red meat more white but the internal conflict often rears it's head.We are top of the food chain I suppose. We are omnivore because we can sustain ourselves with or without.My cat on the other hand would perish if I didn't give her meat/fish etc. As would many other animals. So is it that as conscious beings with a choice that some of us feel bad? Probably. The animals used for pet food have the same fate as if we ate them but we don't bank on it for survival.I've been the opposite of John and have found as I'm awakening my appetite in general is diminishing somewhat and my internal conflict regarding eating meat has returned.It's a very interesting topic.I think maybe the middle ground would be to only eat ethically sourced meat. Organic but still lamb for example can only come from...lamb...not an adult. That makes me really sad :( but I'd be lying to myself and you if I said I didn't enjoy the taste. It's a moral thing.It's quite possible I'll return to vegetarianism at some point soon.BlessingsGem x
Trevor Lewis
@trevor-lewis
last year
272 posts

I'm with John. I was vegetarian for 15 years and went back to eating meat for health reasons about 20 years ago. My body does better for it. And Merin, you are right, all life is sacred. There is a reason why every tradition blesses their food, be it indigenous cultures or any of the major religions.

karma
@karma
last year
159 posts

I am vegan - I do not consume any animal product whatsoever. Have you heard of a person being brain dead and called a `Vegetable`? The plant that produces a vegetable (root) can be reused to grow another unless you are eating the root itself but, even then that root has no mental state or central nervous system to feel pain and experience trauma. - A vegetable is without any `feeling` whatsoever.

Vegetables grow to a certain point and then stop and rot, they have no life means within them to continue growing - once ripened, it is a very short time before they are rotten

There is no lesser of any evil - plants don`t have a central nervous system nor a mental state per se, they are alive so to speak but do not suffer torment and confusion in which an animal bred for consumption does, spending years in a cage, separated from their young, traumatized, roughly manhandled, strung up alive and brutally slaughtered.... Even if plants were considered to have hearts and brains, their life consists of being nurtured to grow there is no trauma.

All protein and vitamins humans need to be healthy and strong can be found in vegetation and pulses - Many people claim that vegetarians are weaker yet, common sense screams the strongest of animals are vegetarians - Horses, cattle, elephants etc. There is absolutely no need to consume another living, breathing, feeling, emoting creature to maintain a healthy life and be strong physically.

The organic and free range is more acceptable if you look at the life of the animal prior to consumption but, still it will eventually be led to the abattoir and brutalized - The organic cows milk still produced via an induced phantom pregnancy (very traumatizing) to continue the flow..............

I cannot hep being passionate about this topic, My best way of describing the difference in plants and animals is to look harder at your pet and the plant you have in the corner of your room.... wheres the love, wheres the life? :)

karma
@karma
last year
159 posts

Hi Trevor

Just wondering what particular proteins and vitamins were needed to improve your health?

karma
@karma
last year
159 posts

Hi Gem - been a while since having spoken :)

Thank you for saying we can sustain ourselves with or without.... I do believe animals eat other creatures as a food chain perspective (they have the teeth and digestive systems to do so) yet, like I say below it is not needed. Cattle, Horses, Elephants and other large and strong animals do not need to, to survive a healthy life span.

I have been vegetarian for over 17 years but, since `awakening` more I have gone vegan (the last six months)

I am not being judgemental, my partner and daughter, my dog and friends eat meat.... :) I cannot help but wish people did not. I did not come here to preach, I came to explain the difference between plants and animals, central nervous systems and brains/mental states and trauma... :)

Merin Eliz
@merin-eliz
last year
100 posts

So are you saying it's okay to consume a brain dead person? Yes, plants may not feel pain, but they do fight back to being eaten. Most plants when being eaten be animals produce substances called secondary metabolites that can harm the animal. For examples, if a plant leaf is being chewed on by a goat, the plant produced volatile secondary metabolites. These chemicals will enter the goats stomach and cause harm to the goat. These compounds also diffuse in the air and warn the other plants hat a goat is nearby and have the other plants produce the metabolites faster in defence. So, one can't exactly say plants just stand there and do nothing. Fundamentally all organisms want to survive.

Plants do not just grow and rot. They grow to a certain level, then survive by photosynthesising and regenerating their cells. And then after they reach a point the die. But that's what all living beings do. We all just grow, then sustain ourselves and then die. And many plants have been known to live longer than most animals.

Yes, I do agree all necessary proteins and vitamins can be found in plants. (except for vitamin b12 and creatine, but i get we can supplement that. So that's alright). I do not believe vegans are weaker. I' m not sure why people even believe that. Yes, Horses, cattle and elephants are indeed very strong and have a healthy lifestyle. But heir digestive system are optimised for consuming only those. Even if they were given meat they would take it, not because they think it's unhealthy but because they can't digest it. But that doesn't mean that it's the vegetarian food that's making it stronger. The horse's body is optimised such that it's can withstand running or carrying loads. Same for the other animals. It's more of an evolutionary advantage than a dietary one. That being said, we humans who consume meat in moderation is not unhealthy either. As far as health goes I wouldn't say a vegetarian diet or otherwise it makes much of a difference if you take everything in moderation. These lifestyle diseases are mainly cause when one hogs down meat in large amounts. (Which can even happen with plants, too much tomato can cause acid reflux.)

And we all know as far as going organic goes it's not practical, because not everyone gets organic food. it's not available here. And even if you do, we can't always assure that i's totally organic and even if they are sometimes they are not economical always.

I do want to clarify, is the reason most people are vegetarian because they can't stan dthe suffering or they can't stand a life being taken? If it is the suffering, then would you be okay if the animals were anaesthetised before killing? I'm asking out of curiosity and not arguing. :)

I understand that you are passionate about the subject and I respect you for that. I agree that animals need not be cause suffering. And in fact, if I find animals being used for clothes or entertainment I go against it a lot. But my only problem was a dilemma that plants need to be taken into account as well. And I have to say, my pet and my plant feels the same to me. Yes, my pet maybe active, maybe able to communicate in some forms to me, and maybe visibly alive. My plants may just stand there, but I feel life in them too. (I might even say that sometimes I feel them happy.Although I can't prove it to you or anything. ) I feel their energy, they're as much alive to as are animals.

Merin Eliz
@merin-eliz
last year
100 posts

Yeah I don't force anything either. I just go where it takes me. :P

That's great! I must admit I'm still scared of a lot of stuff. :)

Merin Eliz
@merin-eliz
last year
100 posts

Yes, watching animals being slaughtered is very depressing. I guess most of are okay with animals being used as pet food because there is no other choice. But we as, humans as you said can survive without plants. I never question that. :)

I think my appetite diminishes sometimes an then comes back again. I'm not sure why.

Yes, organic food is a nice middle ground, but I doubt I can do that, cause we don't get that here and when we do, they just lie about it being organic or ethically sourced. (it's sad.) I actually just enjoy the taste of chicken, I don't like other meats much. And I don't like chicken as much now. I have no idea why.

I'm not sure, but I might do that too. Mainly because I'm beginning to not like the taste of meat much. :)

Blessings to you too! :)

Merin Eliz
@merin-eliz
last year
100 posts

Yes indeed. :)

Gem
@gem
last year
220 posts
Hi Karma :) nice to 'bump' into you again! It's definitely come back for me again since the awakening and it's getting harder to ignore my feelings although I know it will be hard with the rest of the household still eating it and the extra money to cater separately for myself.I suffer IBS along with fibro and ddd so I've been looking at going gluten free to improve my health, since that involves catering separately from the others I've been learning towards cutting out the meat too.I understand your passion on the subject having been vegetarian before (albeit not as long as you).In truth I struggle to eat at all during the day and tend to only have an evening meal (I know that's not very healthy but like I say my appetite has diminished somewhat). X
karma
@karma
last year
159 posts

Hmmm

Where does any indication enter of it being okay eating a brain dead person in anything I have said?, is this a little hostile?

I speak of Vegetative connection (no feeling in a vegetable, no feeling in the the brain and central nervous system being dead in a vegetative state) - Plants, please note I have stated are different from vegetables. Life is well and truly abundant within nature it is its own life source but, to coincide torment of a leaf to a goat and torment of cattle, pigs and chickens is with paramount difference.

Many plants are hostile to the human and to the animal, therefore poisonous.

I have not in any manner suggested that a vegetarian diet makes any animal stronger, I have only presented there is no need for strong animals to ingest meat to be strong. Yeast extracts provide vit B12, Creatine not vitally important to sustain a healthy living, just as much as the five a day silliness, healthy living is mere healthy exercise and diet aka common sense.

I am in total agreement plants have life, there are proven techniques that plants can respond to nurture in many ways - yet they have no mental state nor central nervous system.

Plants when consumed are usually snipped at and eaten providing continued growth, or pruned so to speak to promote optimal growth therefore indicating a need to do so to provide a healthy plant, the more its pruned the longer and healthier the life - animal slaughter does not have the same outcome.

Am I seemingly hostile? probably, although unintentional, my love for the animal kingdom is intense... I just believe as an empath who does indeed feel the emotional torment of others, both person and animal, I cannot deny I do not understand how others do not feel this also when claiming to be able to feel the same - therefore my passion is indeed intense. How can an empath be overlooking the pain and torment of what they are eating?

consumption, clothing, furniture, beauty products - nothing is worth harming or taking a life for, synthetic replicas are plentiful, beauty products merely gimmicks of what beauty is supposed to be about....

I do not agree a horse is optimized in a manner to carry loads - Man decided a horse would be of use to him to do so, just as man has optimized every animal it uses to assist man

Your question regarding most vegetarians, I can only speak for myself of course :) - No other living beings, blood, muscle, cells etc are anything I would consider for consumption, anaesthetised or otherwise, we are all made from the same ingredients, flesh and bone, we all have a mind, mental state, emotional connection, we are all kept alive by a heart pumping blood through our veins I see no difference in human flesh and bone and animal flesh and bone. I do not condemn those who eat meat, I do not like it, I cannot stop anyone eating meat, I cannot single handed change the world.

Plants are indeed beautiful and indeed full of life and have an energy, they, provide nourishment and continue to grow, nature is amazing - the animal kingdom also

Gem
@gem
last year
220 posts
I agree it is hard to go organic with so many bogus companies out there etc.It's also more expensive I've found.The appetite thing is weird huh! Sometimes I notice feeling hungry but have no desire to eat it's hard to explain but because of that I'm making sure I take plenty of supplements and I always have an evening meal whether I want to or not!I suppose all any of us can do is follow are hearts on such matters. As long as what each of us chooses to do sits well with us personally then that's ok.Very interesting topic :) x
Gem
@gem
last year
220 posts
I can't speak for Trevor but it was kind of medical reasons for me to at 16. I ended up very anaemic and was prescribed iron tablets (I was terrible at taking anything tablet form till my 20's) my mum used to get so so frustrated with me when I'd start gagging on the tablets and couldn't swallow them. In the end she refused to continue buying me my separate meals. I understand now I'm older she was just worried for my health but it was a hard transition for me at the time.Ironically now I can't seem to metabolise b12 which comes from meat and I have to inject so going back to vegetarianism won't affect me that way. X
karma
@karma
last year
159 posts

I am awkward lol

My partner and daughter having to put up with non allowance of cooking meat at home... in all fairness my daughter is not really a big meat eater and my boyfriend (of 15 years) came into my life already knowing that was a part of me. My dog `Dolly` eats meat because I would not want to introduce a diet at her ten years that may disrupt her digestive system.

The way I see it, I cannot change anyone, I am me, I am passionate and I guess I am more passionate here regarding an empath perspective of meat consumption. I am not judging and demanding (probably sound like I am lol) I just cannot understand it :)

evolveconsciousness.org/why-is-veganism-important-in-awakening-and-ending-evil/

You sound like you are struggling with health at present and one meal a day, can be okay if it is suffice for you at regarding symptoms.... just watch your energy levels if need be, plently of superfoods to boost your energy, even if in small amounts :)

Merin Eliz
@merin-eliz
last year
100 posts

Well, you compared the two and said they were alike so I was wondering if that was a possibility. I didn't mean it in a hostile way. I was just exploring the possibilities out of curiosity. I'm sorry if it felt that way to you. Now I understand what you meant better. :)

So, you meant to say that the diet is an example of how we people wouldn't need meat to strong. Yes, a horse wouldn't need meat. But you see that's because it's a herbivore. They can digest everything in it's diet and can use it best. We humans can't digest the cellulose in plants.We have two different digestive systems. That would be like saying, a lion eats only meat and is healthy, so only eating meat is totally okay. But it isn't we need plants for a lot of stuff. Yeast extracts don't naturally provide vitamin b12, they have to be fortified with it, which is why I sai supplements. Not sure about creatine though. But you must be right there.

Yes, I guess that's true. Plants being pruned does help them when we are eating.

No, you're not seeming hostile. You just seem passionate. And I can relate to that cause there are a lot of things i'm passionate about as well. One really can't eat animals they know have suffered. Which is why I felt the same about plants.

Yes all those awful products are so bad. When eating you can atleast say it's to survive (although i'm not saying one ought to us it as an excuse.) But using animals for beauty products, and clothes and all. That's just awful. Killing animals to satisfy someone's ego is just awful.

No, no, I really didn't mean that it is optimized to carry load. I just meant that it's leg muscles are strong. Not for carrying load but for running and stuff. I just said carrying load there cause I couldn't find a strenous enough activity for horses to cite as example. That's just people being manipulative of the nature around them.

Ok, i'm asking his only for knowing your view on this cause I like hearing things in other people's perspectives, so that I may see all points of this. i'm not being hostile. :) So, you consider only organisms with blood and and systems like us worthy of saving? Yes, I know you don't mean to condemn anyone else. And I agree, we cannot stop others from eating meat. But hey you can single handely change the world. :) There have been many who have done it. :)

Yes, of course, the animal kingdom is amazing. Being a student in zoology each day I see how wonderful animals are and how diverse and beautiful they are.

Goodenergyhealing
@goodenergyhealing
last year
373 posts

I don't think most if us have a choice, most of us are not so advanced that we can survive without food... I try to be as respectful and grateful as possible, and I have made it clear to Creation that I am willing to come back as a plant, insect, animal etc. to help other life forms. I just hope that I'll be treated nicely then :)

I guess it is impossible to know how much exactly plants 'feel', and how much they are happy about being eaten. Some eating is obviously part of a plants life-cycle - e.g. fruit seed, being carried further afield if eaten and carried off. With other non-fruit foods it is harder to know. I do plan to ask, to know for sure, once I have left my body (naturally!).

It is true, likely an animal will not enjoy being killed, but then that is a very small part of it's life-span, and if it has been treated well before... My mum grew up on a farm, and e.g. told me that cows are dependent on being milked. Many farm animals might not be able to survive in the wild anymore... Still I am vegetarian (again), not vegan though. It helps keep the arguments down in my head - lol. For plants I pray that they should, if necessary, be helped to be grown, cut, packaged, transported, cooked, ect. - as painfree and joyous as possible. At least for 'my share'.

The whole topic used to be a HUGE one, especially during the first three years, after waking up spiritually. i was so desperate, as I did not want to hurt other beings, I contemplated leaving my body assisted. I have now come to see though that it was mainly energies trying to weaken me. I hope that me staying in my body and trying my best to be a Light is of greater benefit to life on this planet, than me leaving. Just to be sure I prayed back then that Spirit should please take me out of my body asap, if I caused undue harm by living - eating, etc. That was 15+ years ago, so I therefore too assume it is fine to 'eat'.... (Oh, another reason why I think that 'eating' worries are just negative energy attacks is, that I found patterns too. I.e. even years after having 'sorted the issue in my mind and heart - I used to get 'attacked' by severe eating doubts, and fears, every time, about 2-3 weeks before traveling home, for x-mas, to Germany, Once back in the UK, the fears would dissipate very quickly. For the last two years they do not hit anymore, so whatever caused them seems to be healed off. I assume it was some German collective subconscious resistances...)

Yohänan
@yohanan
last year
2 posts

You can't hurt plants you can only stop them from growing and flourishing... what so we call someone who had an accident and has no more brain activity and doesn't feel any pain ? NEURO-VEGETATIVE ;)

Also, we all are vegans who forgot we were... we eat meat, dairy, eggs mostly because of taste, convenience and habit ;)And we started eating it because of survival... Farming animals means breeding animals for the sole purpose of making profit... I suggest you watch so Gary Yourofsky videos... they're awesome and so accurate and realists... !:)His logic is impeccable :)

Yohänan
@yohanan
last year
2 posts

Here's one of his best videos :) (Gary Yourofsky)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcAAPcqQD1M

karma
@karma
last year
159 posts

Glad no hostility :)

I think everything needs saving, even humanity from itself :) I just believe flesh and blood is not for consumption, digestive systems kind of irrelevant when we can live without, if were meant to consume meat in the manner humanity does then we could not survive without it.... being able to proves it is not needed.

In fairness, I could respect more that if like we are told of cavemen hunting for food to survive then the animalistic cave man was only being the animal he was.... I do not and never will respect the breeding and trapping of animals for consumption.

Manufacturing of live stock and the treatment etc, etc, I cannot accept it - It is a sad life where we even have to have sanctuaries for ex-lab animals, endangered species, abused and neglected animals of every kind - people are the worst animal on this planet that`s for sure.

I not only see animals as being made of the same as what we are made of, I also see them as the most beautiful creatures alive that respect their surroundings and respecting the planet that gives them life... They have no ego, highly sensitive to the spiritusl realm, only kill for food or to protect their young, I actually believe they have more of a right to be here than we do.

Arrogant as a race we believe we are top of the food chain - place us in the wild or in a cage we would soon lose the arrogance.... its humanity telling itself it has every right to do as it pleases as always :(

Nature itself needs saving, forests, wild life, everything :(

karma
@karma
last year
159 posts

I hadnt heard of him but, after a quick look I will be taking an in depth look after work. Thanks for the link :)

karma
@karma
last year
159 posts

Wow!!!!

The guy is amazing and explains everything so much better than I have ever been able to.

From the complete enslavement and brutality directed at the animal kingdom to the disturbing truth of what is being eaten (flesh, tendons, blood, veins etc all cooked into what is seen as just `meat` as the finished product)

The labeling of product to disguise and sell, just imagine if the true description was labeled lol.

`Somatic Cell Count` (aka the `Pus`) within milk being pasteurized (aka ``sanitized`).

He explains the trauma of farmed animals brilliantly but, I am too sensitive to listen all the way through.

The guy is fantastic. Thank you for introducing me to his videos :)

Lotusfly
@lotusfly
last year
410 posts

Hi Karma,

I agree that humans are the worst animals on this planet. We are destroying it for a delusional benefit (money = happiness). We are very conceited and wasteful and abusive to the planet and everything on it. Being a westerner, I respect the lifestyle of the Indians the most. They were more respectful, appreciative, and conscientious of their use of the land.

My belief is that meat eating started in the Paleolithic period, when cave people wanted to prevent future hunger, so they stocked up on food. They weren't satisfied by the amount of plants, nuts, berries, etc. that they could gather, so they started hunting animals (fish, rodents, small animals). That was when humans went from gatherers to hunter-gatherers. I believe we started as gatherers who ate what we could find on the land as travelers by foot, stopping to eat when we got hungry or finding a place to rest when we needed to rest. We lived mostly in the present, satisfying our present needs (there was no past to speak of yet and we didn't fear the future). But as our brains developed and we associated hunger with pain and satisfaction from eating with pleasure, we became fearful of the future (hunger) and started hoarding to prevent hunger. Therefore, our present became tainted with fear about the future. (When in reality, we should only be living in the present, like animals. Our thoughts about the future is why humans have egos and all other animals do not.) And to this day, we can't get enough of anything.

Lotusfly

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