How many of you have/had a parent who was in the Cluster B group, narcissistic, borderline, histrionic, or sociopathic? What effects do you think they had on your lives? What methods did you use to overcome?
updated by @ecila: 07/21/18 07:06:35PM
Not really...I mean we can presume that there's "something wrong" or they're not quite "normal" or that they're not treating us how we want to be treated but it isn't really something we can go about labelling and diagnosing ourselves. Psychology is so full of gray and they might seem to fit the criteria in our heads but they might not necessarily be that way. To make it worse, because we've labeled them, our own energy starts feeling depleted by their presence because we've created a relationship with the disease (or what we think is wrong with that person).
I think if you're in a situation that isn't making you happy, then create some distance. Don't tell them about what's going on in your life, try not to get too involved in theirs, even if you live in the same home. Until you can find a way to move out and be on your own, create as much distance as you can. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you "have to" stay or that you "can't" leave or you "can;t" create some distance. You can!
And then say the serenity prayer and keep it moving.
One of the traits of these people is to deny that anything is wrong with them. They blame the other person. One of the results of this, for children, is self-doubt. . . doubt about everything. You learn to doubt your own perceptions, feelings and self-worth. In my case, there were lots of aunts and uncles who finally talked with me about her after I was older....much older. Some of them still won't say much because they are afraid of her. My mother is mostly Borderline but has traits of narcissism and histrionic personalities, based on my own diagnosis of her behaviors. I did get her to a psychologist once, but only once, under the guise that it was for me. Since she was only there once, no diagnosis was made but the psychologist at the time did tell me that she thought she was seriously ill, mostly based on things I had told her and the toll it had taken on me. If you ever live through somebody like this, you don't have any question about a problem.
I do see your point, tho. Everybody is being called narcissistic these days.
How wonderful it would be if a prayer would solve it all. She's 80 and still going strong. Any more than a day near her results in her exploding and triggering all the crap over again. I live 2 hours away and it's not far enough.
Because self-doubt and I are well-acquainted, I try not to plant those same seeds in another.
I think what I was saying is that your mother is your mother. You can't change her. But you do need to take care of you and learning to implement (not just saying) the serenity prayer in your life may be to your benefit. She's been this way for a good 80 years. She's functional. But the pain you're experiencing is for you to deal with. You've already moved out. You're not around her to have to deal with her stuff everyday.Maybe counseling so you can learn to recover and develop skills will help you? For the things I went through, I created distance. And tried to interact with other people while doing a lot of self-examination and paying attention to how I felt in different situations. That's how I learned what was true for me and what was part of my conditioning. I'm still learning.
I'm sorry you've gone through this. I hope you find comfort soon.
Thanks for the replies, Crownite. Everytime I see her I do feel like I need a counselor, but I'll be okay in a few days until she gets me to visit again. I was just wondering if there were any other empaths who knew what it's like to be around a BPD/HPD, the intense emotions involved and the lingering effects. It's impossible to describe to someone who hasn't been through it. I still can't hardly believe it myself. It's like being nuked with all the worst emotions there are all at once...but it's nothing new to me...I will revisit the forum of other adult children of BPD for a while until this wears off:)
That's interesting. I hadn't thought of paranoia. Insecurity is high on the list, tho. I guess they would go together. My mother has some sensitivities, precognition and dreams but I don't see any signs of true empathy unless it suits her purposes. I don't blame her for all my troubles, really. She had a worse childhood than I did, so I mostly feel sorry for her and guilty myself. The guilt is malicious. I'm a bit worried I'll always hear her voice in my head telling me how I'm not good enough no matter what I do, as she has always done. I do agree that we can overcome it all and be who we want to be, tho I hope your father is only a little narcissistic!
Hi...I don't know if my mother is in this cluster group.....as a child all I knew is she scared me....didn't treat me well...verbally abusive and a few times physical...growing up I never wanted to be alone with her....I never knew what to say to her....I was always waiting for something to set her off.....being a child and trying to defend youself from a verbally abusive parent is futile...so I would simply say nothing....I learned early that when she invited me to respond while she was angry and shouting would only hurt me more....so I learned to stay quiet....wait for it to end....agree to be a better child.....take my lumps....and try and stay out of her way. As an adult it's a tuff habit to break.....being afraid of her....but she taught me to be afraid....it wasn't my doing....and I knew I had to undo it....at some point in my life....and the opportunity came....in the form of texting...we were having a one sided fight....only a few years ago....she doing the yelling....me frustrated and angry....I didn't speak to her...I texted her....and told her everything I'd ever wanted to say to her....i let her have it...as soon as I sent it....a HUGE black energy left my back....it unraveled....was extremely painful....and it took 5 munutes fot it to finally stop....I didn't cry...because all of it was supressed anger....and fear....she definitely didn't like what I said...I didn't care...I HAD to say it....i still can't believe how much there was...and that i could carry it around all these years ...for the past year I've been learning about etheric cords and roots....and have been working to clear up the build up of stuff stored in my body and energy system....and one of the 1st I cleared...and continue to clear are the cords and roots to my mother....when I did that...I felt even better....that voice that sounded like my mother...stopped...it comes back of course when I talk with her...but I sever the link asap....anyway...healing comes in many forms....the right way will show up when it shows up....
I'm glad you stood up to her.That is so important...also that you got rid of some of the energy that had accumulated. I also do the cord cutting and some other energy-type work. Your mom sounds like mine. I never knew what would set her off and walked on eggshells all the time. I was frightened of her until I was about 45 (yes, 45-years-old!) when I finally stopped being the one who always backed down, taking the blame, and begging forgiveness. To this day I won't be alone with her in the car.
I think you are totally right that healing comes in many forms, and it is going to take many forms. I am/have been working on it...trying to focus on the cure and not the cause. It does help to understand the cause too, but not to overly focus on it, I think, for too long, and it's been long enough. I am determined to solve this one way or another.
Sorry you had a troubled mom, too. Hang in there and we will figure this out.
Ya...I hated being in the car with her....alone...was always glad when someone else was along. ...she'd ignore me...or have to be nice....lol...I knew even as a child what she was doing was wrong....and I was never able to defend myself adequately verbally. ...was never allowed to....and had no one to defend me....I don't know if there's anything left to figure out....lol...all I know....as a child I was not responsible for her behavior. ...and I don't have to put up with it....I can walk out now....hang up the phone...which I've done a few times....lol...and I don't put up with the guilt trips....or try not too....lol....and I'm sorry you childhood wasn't what it should have been either....a lot of hurt and distrust in those childhood memories....a lot of those are still strong....but we're stronger....I was in my mid 40's too when I took a stand...so you have nothing to be ashamed of...lol
As a child there is no way to put up boundries....the parents are the protectors....and children trust em...and learn from them....if a parent continuously mistreats a child...then to a child there must be a reason....the child will automatically think it's their fault....even as an adult...the child i was is still in pain....in the adult rational mind...we work stuff out....but the child is still in need of assistance. ...I still have trouble with that....I understand what I need to do...but my inner child trusts no adult....even tho I am one...lol....and my empathic abilities tend to get in the way of finding someone to trust...lol... altho...it is kinda good I have the ability....kinda saves me too....
That is so true Karen. There were no boundaries for my mother. I was her property, an object, a possession, an extension of her without an individual identity, as far as she was concerned. We have to learn boundaries for ourselves when we get older and it is very hard to do. It has taken me a lifetime and I'm still working on it.
I am certain that having to read her so closely as a child to avoid her attacks are a big reason I am so sensitive and empathic. The dial was turned up to maximum at a very early age.
That's a super deadly combo Cheye! You poor baby. Staying away is the only real solution it seems. I married a sociopath for 17 years, which completed the cluster B experience for me. Do you feel that you have been able to come to terms with it all since you've been away from them?
First I had to get old enough to figure out what was going on. The slightest remark, or even tone of voice, to my mother when I was small ( and after I grew up for a long time ) would result in my face being slapped, her throwing an all out fit, or worse. It is very hard to get over those feelings of helplessness, domination and fear. But you are right. It has to be done. You have to sort through all the emotions and take responsibility for your own welfare.
One boundary I will set is to never visit her for longer than a day. Maybe I shouldn't stay overnight anymore. This is so hard. I am an only child and she really plays on my sympathy. She has alienated all her family and only has one friend who lives with her. He was also abused by his family, so abuse is familiar to him. I feel sorry for him, too. I don't know what I'd do if he left her, and he threatens to do so. When we are on good terms she calls me twice a day. I know that isn't normal, either, but we get along fine on the phone.
Yup...I know what you mean...after the yelling and high drama it would take a long time to get calm, weeks sometimes...and when I finally would get...well...calmer...it would start all over again....but it was never a true calm cause your just WAITING.......and my mom can be VERY high octive and vocal....quite scary to a kid....
I hope that I am not intruding. I have been following this thread, waiting for the right time to jump in and feel like I should now.
Without going into too many specifics since I do not want to take the focus off of you and everyone else who is trying to heal, I can relate to some of your experiences, and have had to do a lot of emotional healing, too!!!! When I feel an emotional blockage or realize that one of my past emotional traumas is interfering with my well-being and needs to be released, I reach for Pietersite to help me initiate the process.
The only way that I have been able to heal myself emotionally is to emotionally cleanse/detox myself and work through the issues as they come up. I started wearing pietersite (a stone), which is excellent for emotional cleansing!!! I will warn you though: there are times when you will feel emotionally volatile wearing pietersite, and raw, but it is worth it to cry it out, think through it, and release it, without dwelling on it!!!
Also, keeping your chakras balanced, especially your root and solar plexus chakras, is very important for recovery!!! Grounding is also essential! When your solar plexus and root chakras are balanced, it is easier to work through the emotions and traumatic experiences and remove the blame from yourself. It will also help you shed some of the lasting insecurity and feelings of inadequacy that comes with being a victim of an abusive parent.
Asking for the help of Archangel Michael (protection), Archangel Raphael (physical and emotional healing) and Archangel Uriel (wisdom/knowledge, how to, help, work on forgiveness) is hugely beneficial Reiki is also hugely helpful, as is acupuncture!
I just wanted to pipe in and share some things that have helped me, that I continue to use when I feel that it is neccessary:)
I'm so glad you jumped in I had not heard of pietersite. It is absolutely gorgeous and after reading the wiki about it, it make perfect sense that it would be good for healing:
"The fibrous structure in pietersite has been folded, stressed, even fractured and/or broken apart via the Earth's geologic processes. The fibrous materials have then been reformed and naturally recemented together by quartz."
This stones life sounds like mine! I need recementing. I will order a piece of pietersite.
I'm not in the habit of working with chakras either but I will give it a try. It does help me to do metta meditation or any meditation. I'm going to have to be better a sticking to the routine.
I also do call on Uriel, Michael, Gabriel and Raphael, usually every morning when I stick to my routine. It does help a lot. I haven't tried Reiki, but have been meaning to check that out. I'll add that to the list.
Thanks so much for this. I will make a complete list of what helps and post in the blog in case anyone else could use the info. It is incredible the amount of healing that needs to be done when you have so many years of abuse behind you, esp when it continues throughout your whole d*** life.
Thank you all for helping me with this. I feel better now in large part due to all of you. It's good to vent sometimes and I feel i can be honest here without seeming weak or self pitying, still I hope I didn't depress anyone.
There was a talk on Youtube last night that mentioned getting an image, or making a sigil, to represent love for yourself. I decided on a simple heart and was going to order something. I went to a thrift store today and found a hemetite (grounding and protection) necklace and a heart of black jasper (good for healing and protection) for a dollar! There is also a gem and mineral show nearby next weekend that I will visit to look for pietersite.
Thanks again to all you beautiful, patient, compassionate people:)
I'm glad that I could help I'm also interested in finding out how everyone else copes/heals/releases.
You can find pietersite beads, tumbled stones, pendants, etc. on ebay and etsy for some really good prices if you don't find it at the gem show.
Also, another stone that I have no experience with yet but that sounds helpful and that I am thinking of trying soon is peridot, which cleanses the heart and solar plexus chakras, and actually can help them merge into one giant chakra:)
Does anyone here have any experience with peridot?
My mother (deceased) was a clinical Narcissist. My exhusband (deceased) was markedly sociopathic; my exboyfriend, ditto. My father (deceased) was nuts; not sure of his diagnosis. I have had far too much experience of Cluster B personality disordered people in other aspects of my life. Cannot bear them, keep encountering them. It's exhausting as they really set off my nervous system like nothing else. I now at least know their energy signatures and trust myself in this. Avoidance is the best option. Life is more peaceful now everyone is dead, though that sounds a bit unkind. People can't imagine what it is like to live with this sort of thing; they can usually project a reasonable and even admirable image to the outside world.
I believe I honed my empath thing to survive/navigate life in my childhood home, and my early training certainly has made me an attractive partner for anyone Cluster B.
Lavender&Rose...My ex is also deceased and was sociopathic. I don't think you sound unkind at all. And yes, to the outside world they seem/seemed like wonderful people. Mom is an ultra-christian. The ex was very charming. Dad is aspergers which feels a lot like narcissism...Have you been able to get the the parents out of your head?
I have decided to avoid the mother no matter how she tries to lure me in. She needs surgery soon and expects me to come. I might have to ...and then there's Christmas but I can just make that a short visit, although she will get mad about that, too.
Thanks Karen. She only has the one friend who lives with her (who might be gone on a fishing trip) and one other friend who is very weird but who would help some. She's just expecting me to be there (I'll have to drive 2 hours and stay) and I can just hear it now if I don't go, but I might not. I don't think the recovery is very long, maybe a week. I am thinking of cutting if completely off with her.
I had a major surgery once and she drove me there in the morning but not until she threw a fit that morning at 4:30 am because by her estimation I was late (I wasn't really). She yelled all the way to the hospital and said that she would "get me through this surgery and then I am done with your forever." I went in crying. She was talking to the nurses about getting power of attorney on me while I was recovering on morphine because I wasn't acting right. Oh, and I had to recover on my own when I went home...and it was a major thing. I had countless staples up my front. I couldn't hardly move. So glad you reminded me of that!
Oh, the memories.
While I understand Crownite's apparent aversion to labeling, I have good reason to believe my mother was a "Cluster B" type. She was constantly depressed, angry, mean-spirited, jealous, punitive (though usually not physically), self-centered, melodramatic, and all-around abusive to me, my siblings, and my father. It actually gave her pleasure to see one of us in pain or suffering in any way, kind of a vicarious Baron von Munchhausen type. I escaped from her by creating my own little space in my bedroom, surrounding myself with pretty, comforting things, music, etc. My brother turned to drugs, my sister turned to sports. My father still lives with her abusive behavior, and he is the most non-abusive, kind, generous person I ever met (I'm not going to harp on enablers right now - this is about my mother).
I have seen therapists, counselors, psychiatrists, tried meditation, antidepressants, healers, shamans, and all kinds of stuff. All of it helped. I avoid certain foods (chocolate makes me feel 100 times worse) and take lots of vitamins and supplements - always liquid since they're digested quickly. I have tight control over my life and my very few friends.
It never occurred to me until recently that my "clinical depression" may have been empathy for my seriously disturbed mother. I do remember being depressed as a little kid and not knowing why. People treat depression like a disease; I think it's more likely a symptom of empathy.
Chay, you don't sound mean at all. When I was a kid (pre-adolescent) I studied French. My teacher asked me in French, "Do you love your mother?" I said "Non." She insisted that I really did love my mother and forced me to say "Oui" so I did just to avoid further embarrassment. I didn't feel guilty - I was being honest, and that was important to me. Still is.
Visitor...I can relate. I took my bed out of my room to make room for my piano and slept on a feather bed on the floor. I used music. My stepbrother got it from her even worst then me and is a addict to this day. Also been down the counselor...shaman...meditation roads. Also had depression since I can remember but I deal okay most of the time when I'm to myself. I do believe it can be a symptom of empathy. With repeated, intense and long-term exposure, tho, it can be hard to shake. I did leave home at 15 in an attempt of survival but later after I was settled she moved to be near me. After my son went to college I moved again. She still always wants to visit or me to go there.
As for labeling, sometimes you just gotta call the kettle black. Your mom sounds like she had a lot of the sociopathic tendencies as well as others from the spectrum. So glad you have gained control.
Thanks for the comment. I might check out some liquid vitamins when I re-up and keep in mind that I must keep tight control on my life.
Yes, I believe I finally, largely have got them out of my head! It was very hard going for many years until this point, though.
Meditation, listening to my self-talk, lots of self-cleansing and just being aware of the awful messages I was getting from the parental introjects - and a load of avoidance of anyone I finally worked out was repeating or somehow triggering such messages, and hence hideous emotional and mental states - and a lot of reading, etc.
I am still very vulnerable to the old messages encoded in tone and manner (so disdain, contempt, disgust, shaming, anger, guilting, ridicule, etc, from randoms can set me off for days). That doesn't sound like much of an improvement, but believe me it is!
Reading every book on NPD I could find helped deal with my mother especially; I had to constantly revalidate what I was experiencing, it was so crazy-making. But since her death, etc, just not having the poison added in constantly has helped healing over time, along with the awareness of what I have experienced. I still read a lot now and then on Cluster Bs, and NPDs. (They seem to be breeding!)
Not much you can do with the required visits. I didn't have the heart once my mother got ill to boot her out of my life, so I just did a lot of self-care stuff around the visits. In my experience, whatever you do she'll get mad - so factor in your best options and a shitload of selfcare. I wish I'd known about and trusted 'light' work more fully in the years my mother was dying. It was hard to have boundaries at all, though very necessary, then. Draining, poisoning, crazymaking...
This is a Sants story.....growing up my family was pretty big on xmas...family get together...the usual building up of the children....better be good or no presents from santa....etc...at some point a kid usually figures out one way or another that santa isn't a real person....but the parents continue on with the charade....so...one year...I don't know exactly why...I think she was just in a bad mood....suddenly told me there was no santa....and in a cruel tone....I kinda new that..it was just how she said it that wasn't right...it was said in a manner to be mean....and it was said on xmas day...so...later that day...we got a call from my aunt...when I spoke to her she asked...so..was santa good to you this year?... and I told her the truth...lol...mom was standing right there.....there IS NO SANTA....the shock on my mom's face that I would tell the truth on christmas day...and the...YOU SHOULDN'T say thinga like that...lol....still gives me the giggles....lol...getting in trouble for telling the truth...i was very confused at that...but I really enjoyed that brief moment of shock on her face...lol...even at that age it felt like I scored a point...lol
Oh, man. It's amazing how they can pull these stunts and then we still feel guilty and obligated - and afraid of their anger and retaliation, I guess, if we don't do the whatever kindliness they did not extend to us. The fog, the fog, seeping in...
Look after yourself, Ecila.
I know this doesn't have much to do with this discussion....it isn't such a big deal....but to a child it's huge....I remember this like it was yesterday....and that's because of the way the parent was behaving....and that behavior is what set all the triggers in place for her to control me....so...I look at it this way....in order to achieve freedom from her control....I have to eliminate the triggers created by her....it's tough..cause the triggers are all through my memories...even the good ones....and when I have done that...I win....lol...not sure I can acheive this 100%....but that's my goal...lol
My dad has narcissistic personality disorder, and because I'm an empath, I've born the brunt of his bad behavior and psychic abuses. I still love my dad, but I have recently begun to wake up to the damage is has caused me. I am trying to learn how to protect myself from him when I have to be around him. I don't know how yet, but I hope to get there. I guess it helps to know that no matter how much he blames me, it's not about me, it's about him.
Lavender&Rose...You describe it well. I dreamed last night she was going in to surgery and she told me "I'm going to die now." I think I will have to make up with her or the guilt will eat me alive. Guilt and shame were/are her strongest effects on me. I ordered a book on BPD and signed up for a retreat at the Buddhist monastery nearby on Oct 5. Lotsa lotsa self care! Thanks for that comment. It give me hope:)
Sarah...My son said those exact words to me a few years ago and it was a revelation. "It's not about you..." I'm glad my son has become smarter and wiser than me....lol....I also try to look at them as they are children but my patience isn't always where it should be, and the last time I was with her I wasn't prepared for the onslaught. Next time I might envision a suit of armour around me complete with iron shields and swords instead of the nice white bubble It's sad to have to go through all that to be around your parents, but it is as it is.
My kids are wiser than I am, too.
I had a time like that with my dad this summer. I have never stood up to him before in my life and I did. I know he can't hear me and it won't make a difference in how he treats me, except it might get worse, but I was proud of myself. I took that time of extra abuse directed at me and my husband and kids as a gift. I saw how truly sick my dad is and how it has left dark energy to clear all over myself and my soul. I saw that I could be proud of myself for growing up in that environment and still being a spiritual person and a whole person. I saw that if I had chosen to be less healthy, he would abuse me less. It's my strength and wholeness that is a threat to him somehow. It was truly a great gift and ended up being a springboard for some deep healing.
At the same time, when I see him again in November, I'm not sure how to behave around him or to protect myself, but I will no longer take that abuse.
I like your suit of armor idea. Good luck to you and to us both! Hugs!
Since I am 2 hours away, it should be okay if I only talk to her on the phone and limit any visits to only a day trip with no overnights. I will try that this time along with many of the other suggestions on this thread. Narrowing it down is a good way to look at it. Thank goodness I'm 2 hours away. If I was near her that wouldn't work. She used to show up at my house a lot and expected me to stop by all the time. I literally had to pass her house to go home everyday and it was always a guilt trip.
I called her roommate/boyfriend/whatever he is and she might not have surgery. I offered to go if needed. I've dealt with her this long. I guess I'll endure a while longer. At least we aren't children and dependant on them anymore!
The book, Surviving a Borderline Parent, came today. I have read a lot years past but nothing lately. Toxic Parents was a really good one. Alice Miller has some good ones. I gave them all away and wish I hadn't now! Seems all my friends also had toxic parents.
Ecila, if you have anxiety problems I'd suggest fish oil supplements. I take a (pricy) supplement called Barlean's pina colada smoothie - it's full of fish oil but you can't taste it. It's delicious and keeps me calm and sane. Truly amazing stuff. They have different flavors, and plain ol' unflavored too.
I didn't know that would help anxiety! And yea I have that too pretty often but not like it used to be...I was buying the lime version of that but as you said, it's pricey! I can't swallow the gelcaps. On a related note dealing with health, I found out this week that I have some kind of autoimmune thing going on and need to see a rhuematologist. I also read that autoimmune problems are common for survivors of abuse like this. Another thing to deal with and have to read up on!
Hi...yup...she's alive....I have 2 mothers...my adopted mother....who I have the issues with....and my biological mother...I have no idea if she's alive....altho...I kinda think not as I have found one of my sisters who grew up with the family....and she sais no one knows where our mother is....anyway...my heart chakra hurts tonight...had dinner with my parents...actually I ate alone wth my mom and it was good....I was actually relaxing....then my dad came home...and she kinda changed....was odd...she started looking for things to argue about....she got tense...and I got tense....she has a way of probing...testing which button will work....she hit one which is extremely painful....I actually stuck up for myself....and kept calm...and a level tone....but it still hurts....physically...and of course she deflects by argueing something totally unrelated...lol...I do find the change from being nice to suddenly ...well...icky...kind of odd...it was instant....but very noticable...I always watch her closely....looking for the change...it's almost as if she were having invisible help...I have spirits with me...so she would have spirits with her....I get the feeling that someone with her or in her house is using her to drive me away...there were quite a few people in the house while I was there tonight...spirit people that is...I can't really tell her what I suspect since she says she doesn't beleive in ghosts...lol...and I'm trying to be gentle with her cause I don't think her actions are 100% her own...but...no matter what I suspect she and this spirit who is hiding behind my mother...have said and done things that have hurt me....I just don't know what to do about the spirit ....he's a real ass....
I think he's been with us for a long long time....and in a weird way is one of the family...he knows I can't confront him in front of my parents...the'd have me in a rubber room soooo fast...lol....he knows it...and was trying to entice me into yelling at him....I was extremely angry at him....as I was leaving I almost turned to start yelling at him...but was literally pushed out the door by one of my spirits..lol... I know about him...but he has the perfect hiding spot...my mom...